How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

You can post any bowling related topics here.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Augustblade
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: March 27th, 2018, 2:25 am

How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by Augustblade » April 18th, 2018, 11:41 pm

I've been struggling to get good pin carry for a while. I noticed that most of the time my ball hit the pins at hook phase or the beginning of roll phase. Here is a video I recorded to see my rev rate.
[youtube][/youtube]

As you can see my rev rate is pretty low (between 130-150). The ball hit the pins when it's still in hook phase. I got this 13 lbs ball about two weeks before. I was using a 10 lbs before that. I'm not very strong so I can't really cup the hand to get a higher rev rate, at least not for now.

So I was thinking how to make the ball hit the pin at roll phase for max pin carry. I tried to slow down my ball speed (from 15 mph to something like 12), it does make the ball goes into roll phase before hitting the pins but the slow speed hinders pin carry.
Should I try play the inside of the lane with more axis tilt? Should I stay at a lower ball speed? Or should I play on the outside and just jam into the pocket? I don't mind shooting spares, I just hate to see the ball deflects from the pocket every time.

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3643
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by EricHartwell » April 19th, 2018, 1:55 am

Your camera angle is not so good, the camera should have been set up on the other side of the lane. Prior to seeing you come into camera view I thought you might be bowling on the left lane. That aside.

It appears you have too much rotation causing your ball to skid too long. Lowering your rotation, staying behind the ball will get it to read the lane earlier, hook and roll sooner.
Otherwise you need much stronger layouts and More surface to get the ball to read the lane.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Augustblade
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: March 27th, 2018, 2:25 am

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by Augustblade » April 19th, 2018, 11:05 am

EricHartwell wrote:Your camera angle is not so good, the camera should have been set up on the other side of the lane. Prior to seeing you come into camera view I thought you might be bowling on the left lane.
Ya I recorded this just to see the rev rate so I didn't set on the right angle

jazlar
Member
Member
Posts: 38
Joined: June 27th, 2016, 4:48 pm

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by jazlar » April 19th, 2018, 4:59 pm

Try to focus on rolling the ball. It seems more like you are throwing it. And as was said above, this is causing too much rotation. Even if you can't stay under/cup the ball (I also have issues with this at times), being able to come from the back and roll the ball makes a huge difference. Make sure your fit is good as well. Getting out of the thumb clean is a big factor.

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by JohnP » April 19th, 2018, 5:24 pm

Try surface adjustments. Start with 1000 grit and work down until you get the reaction you want. -- JohnP

SomyP
Member
Member
Posts: 406
Joined: May 4th, 2013, 12:26 am
Preferred Company: Storm

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by SomyP » April 19th, 2018, 5:36 pm

Pitch in the thumb plays a big factor as well. I used to have reverse pitch in my thumb. For about the past 8 years or so I've had forward pitch in the thumb. What this does is that it lessens the grip on the ball. This translates to a softer hand at release and a quicker thumb. A quicker thumb will mean that your fingers have more time to rotate through the ball thus increasing rev rate and therefore your roll will be earlier since the ball in theory will be starting sooner.

turbotwister
Member
Member
Posts: 549
Joined: February 15th, 2012, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: storm

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by turbotwister » April 24th, 2018, 10:36 pm

is the ball urethane? to me, looks like it skids all the way to the pin deck......maybe more surface or move right to make the ball get more rotation.....

GrumpyCatFace
Member
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: May 26th, 2018, 1:46 pm
Preferred Company: Pyramid

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by GrumpyCatFace » May 30th, 2018, 7:23 pm

First, I am the last person on here that should give advice.

But I looks like the ball is rolling “ineffectively”. Your PAP is almost pointed back at you! Curious to see what the coaches say, but my guess is way too much spin, and not enough roll.

User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3562
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: How to make roll phase (breakpoint) earlier

Post by kajmk » June 7th, 2018, 8:27 pm

Augustblade, Don Johnson discussed Axis Rotation and Tilt in his second video.
You will see the PAP migration and an explanation of where it should be for maximum pin carry.

The higher numbers of Tilt and Rotation delay the roll phase.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... er_Bowling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

Post Reply