I thought I remember seeing something from Kegel that stated at what volume a ball would read and start to hook. It was related to the oil graph on the right side of this picture.
I thought it was something that anything over 300 probably won't move.
Does anyone know where to find this information?
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... _graph.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Amount of oil and ball hook
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- Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
- Speed: 17 mph
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- Axis Rotation: 45+
- Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
- Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
- Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
- Location: Northern California
Amount of oil and ball hook
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
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Book Average 210+
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Re: Amount of oil and ball hook
There's no set number. It is dependent on the ball being used and the speed and rev rate of the bowler.
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- Member
- Posts: 915
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:53 am
- THS Average: 210
- Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
- Speed: 17 mph
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 45+
- Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
- Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
- Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
- Location: Northern California
Re: Amount of oil and ball hook
It was in reference to the green and red oil volume graph. I know there are variables, but I thought it was something like under 300 was the where a ball would see enough friction to read and see motion.
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
Book Average 210+
Book Average 210+
Re: Amount of oil and ball hook
In all the articles I've seen, I've never ran across anything that said a ball won't move/see friction on anything over 300 anything.J_w73 wrote:It was in reference to the green and red oil volume graph. I know there are variables, but I thought it was something like under 300 was the where a ball would see enough friction to read and see motion.
Also 300 what? Units? Microliters?
In regard to the composite graph remember it just shows how much oil is on that board, if you took all the oil on that board (from the end of the pattern back to the foul line) and stacked it up at the foul line.
It doesn't tell you how many "Units" of oil there is at any given point along that board.
Oil Pattern Graphs: KOSI Composite Graphs
http://www.kegel.net/wpa/2016/3/14/5bpi ... dxrp84n1ec
Now Rob M has said a few times that a modern ball won't see anything some where around 7-8 units of oil, But I've never found anything really that backs that up.
In the article "Breakdown and Carrydown – Then and Now"
http://www.kegel.net/wpa/breakdown-and- ... en-and-now
They say "Anyone want to bowl on a pattern with 40 units on the outsides? Of course you don’t - your ball will never hook!"
Going by that 40 units would stop a ball from hooking, but they are not saying thats the minimum that would stop it. So I assume the minimum amount of oil to stop a ball from hooking is less than that.
But that minimum probably would also depend on the ball surface texture used. A courser surface would require more oil to stop it than a smoother one. And of course the variables speed, revs etc would probably factor in also.
To go with that Here's some charts that compare surface texture to Units of oil
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"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
Re: Amount of oil and ball hook
There is the two major factors of bowler and ball as well that will determine how much a ball will hook. A person who throws it slow with low revs, but has a super dull asymmetric ball drilled for max hook, depending on the pattern might see as much hook as a person who is high speed high revs using a symmetric ball drilled weak who's trying to tame their hook.
A high speed high rev player can see little to no hook even if throwing the strongest ball on the market. On the other hand a low speed, low rev player could see max hook throwing the strongest ball on the market. The difference between two players will be axis rotation, axis tilt, and who has the most traffic on their line to determine who will see more transition.
A high speed high rev player can see little to no hook even if throwing the strongest ball on the market. On the other hand a low speed, low rev player could see max hook throwing the strongest ball on the market. The difference between two players will be axis rotation, axis tilt, and who has the most traffic on their line to determine who will see more transition.
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- Member
- Posts: 915
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:53 am
- THS Average: 210
- Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
- Speed: 17 mph
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 45+
- Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
- Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
- Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
- Location: Northern California
Re: Amount of oil and ball hook
It was referring to whatever 300 (if that is what it was) is on the KOSI Composite Graphs. I'll have to keep looking and find the article. Of course the cover strength, surface, speed, RPM, and rotation is all going to play a part. I think it was referring a general rule of thumb for the average bowler speed and RPM with a current strong ball.
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
Book Average 210+
Book Average 210+
-
- Member
- Posts: 915
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:53 am
- THS Average: 210
- Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
- Speed: 17 mph
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 45+
- Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
- Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
- Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
- Location: Northern California
Re: Amount of oil and ball hook
Found it on the bottom of one of the pattern sheets
KEGEL TIP - Once the amount of conditioner on the corners
(outsides) reaches 300 microliters, an oil pattern begins to become
“competitive”. Less than that amount the ball might see friction and
it could play on the easy side
KEGEL TIP - Once the amount of conditioner on the corners
(outsides) reaches 300 microliters, an oil pattern begins to become
“competitive”. Less than that amount the ball might see friction and
it could play on the easy side
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
Book Average 210+
Book Average 210+
Re: Amount of oil and ball hook
Okay that's on this pattern sheet for the C- Taj Mahal pattern
There are two tips
1-KEGEL TIP - Generally, the lower the ratios towards the end of the oil pattern, the less
guidance of the bowling ball and therefore, the more difficult the oil pattern may play.
The higher the ratios are towards the end of the oil pattern, the easier it may play.
2-KEGEL TIP - Once the amount of conditioner on the corners
(outsides) reaches 300 microliters, an oil pattern begins to become
“competitive”. Less than that amount the ball might see friction and
it could play on the easy side.
There are two tips
1-KEGEL TIP - Generally, the lower the ratios towards the end of the oil pattern, the less
guidance of the bowling ball and therefore, the more difficult the oil pattern may play.
The higher the ratios are towards the end of the oil pattern, the easier it may play.
2-KEGEL TIP - Once the amount of conditioner on the corners
(outsides) reaches 300 microliters, an oil pattern begins to become
“competitive”. Less than that amount the ball might see friction and
it could play on the easy side.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."