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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:02 pm Post Number: #21 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
The PBA will NEVER prohibit any ball that can be used in USBC league competition on the Tour. The simple reason for this is that the ball manufacturers count on league bowlers seeing the Pros use the same balls that they use to sell product. No pro use = no ball sales = no sponsorship. It's a simple matter of dollars and cents.


I can tell you this, pro bowling has no effect at all on what we sell in the shop. NONE.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:04 pm Post Number: #22 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:
I can tell you this, pro bowling has no effect at all on what we sell in the shop. NONE.


As a former marketing executive, I can tell you this; advertising exposure is way more complex than consumers knowing why they buy a certain product.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:41 am Post Number: #23 Post
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RobMautner wrote:

As a former marketing executive, I can tell you this; advertising exposure is way more complex than consumers knowing why they buy a certain product.

My experience with league players choosing balls is this: The walk into the pro shop during league, complain about some aspect of their bowling reaction and ask the pro shop operator which balls will solve their problem.
He then recommends something and they buy it and see what happens.
Then they never clean the ball after play or even take care of it and it just wears down in a year or less and then they complain again and buy a new ball and so on.
Or, some players start using a ball (Code Red as an example) and other players hear it is striking like crazy so they buy one too.
The pro shop that does my work told me he sold 200 Code Reds in one month just by word of mouth from other league bowlers.

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:07 am Post Number: #24 Post
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You are missing one piece of the puzzle: the Staffers. Since you mentioned the Code Red, I can tell you that I know a staffer who talked to one of the touring pros who told him how great the Code Red was. He then told other bowlers that the Code Red hooked five more boards than the Code Black (total nonsense), and the train was off and running.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:29 am Post Number: #25 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
You are missing one piece of the puzzle: the Staffers. Since you mentioned the Code Red, I can tell you that I know a staffer who talked to one of the touring pros who told him how great the Code Red was. He then told other bowlers that the Code Red hooked five more boards than the Code Black (total nonsense), and the train was off and running.

But who are these mysterious "Staffers" and where would I find a sighting of one in my local house?
I have never seen one in 6 years of bowling in three different houses.

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:07 am Post Number: #26 Post
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Nord wrote:
But who are these mysterious "Staffers" and where would I find a sighting of one in my local house?
I have never seen one in 6 years of bowling in three different houses.


You've never seen a staffer? Boy you can't throw a rock without hitting one in the US.

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:48 am Post Number: #27 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:

You've never seen a staffer? Boy you can't throw a rock without hitting one in the US.

What do they look like?
How do they dress?
How do they make their presence known?
Do they even exist?
What are they?

So tonight I went to our pro shop and asked these questions:

Q: How do you get ball sales?
A: 99% word of mouth from other league bowlers. One bowler says they have a new great ball and strike like crazy and now everyone wants that ball.
Q: Who do you sell to?
A: Mostly league bowlers and the occasional new bowler.
Q: Do you advertise?
A: No, not at all.
Q: Do you recommend balls and encourage sales based on ball reactions you have observed?
A: No. I haven't bowled for the last year. I have no idea how these balls really work now, so I do not recommend anything. People just make their own choices.
Q: Do staffers come in and promote balls for you?
A: Of course not. It is all word of mouth in the league community.
Q: Do people come to you because they saw their favorite bowler on TV use it?
A: Very rarely. Sometimes that happens but it is very rare.
Q: If the USBC bans balance holes as it seems they will, will this affect your sales or your process?
A: Not at all. It will actually make my job easier since I won't have to drill all these holes anymore.

This conversation is real and occured 2 hours ago when I went in to get, yes, a balance hole done. Lol.

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:37 pm Post Number: #28 Post
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One of your PSO's answers speaks volumes: he hasn't bowled in a year so he doesn't know how balls will react. I throw nothing but plastic, but I know how a ball will react based on the core shape and numbers and the cover material. In addition, staffers don't talk to PSO's, they talk to other league bowlers (staffers are league bowlers themselves). If you are going to ask a PSO anything about marketing, you might try to find one who knows something about what he is doing.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:15 pm Post Number: #29 Post
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Nord wrote:
Q: Do you recommend balls and encourage sales based on ball reactions you have observed?
A: No. I haven't bowled for the last year. I have no idea how these balls really work now, so I do not recommend anything. People just make their own choices.


Well at least he is a honest PSO! He admits he doesn't know anything and just grabs balls off the shelf and punches holes in them.

That occasional new bowler that asks what do you recommend is really S.O.L. aren't they.


Staffers:
What do they look like? Just like anybody else.

How do they dress? Just like anybody else, Bowling they might be wearing their company branded shirts and products.

How do they make their presence known? Basically word of mouth (which is a form of advertising), I was looking for new shoes, One of the bowlers here I heard was a Brunswick staffer. Asked him about the TPU-x's, he told me about them and let me try his (They fit me). Next thing I did was buy some! Which is just what the companies hope staffers do cause sales.

You see a lot online, they are the ones posting most of the ball reviews & reviews videos

Do they even exist? Yes We have several here mainly Motiv and Brunswick staffers. The new PSO here is a Motiv staffer, Advertises, Runs promotions and has Demo Days and knows how the balls work.

What are they? Staffers are bowlers and pro shop operators that use and are promoting one companies products.

There are different levels like Advisory Staff, Regional Staff, Pro Staff and those can have different levels depending on the company.

The Lowest level staffers are basically just volunteers looking for discounts on equipment in exchange for promoting that companies products.

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:17 pm Post Number: #30 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
One of your PSO's answers speaks volumes: he hasn't bowled in a year so he doesn't know how balls will react. I throw nothing but plastic, but I know how a ball will react based on the core shape and numbers and the cover material. In addition, staffers don't talk to PSO's, they talk to other league bowlers (staffers are league bowlers themselves). If you are going to ask a PSO anything about marketing, you might try to find one who knows something about what he is doing.

Actually my PSO is a fantastic bowler who aggressively bowled in many leagues and tournaments and knew all about the balls he sold because he would drill one up of each and try them out or worked with other players to understand their reaction.
But, as happens in life, a year ago he got married and had a baby.
Now he only has time for them.
He quit bowling to do so and now just runs his pro shop to feed the family.
So he does not know what all these "new" balls react like because he doesn't try them out.
Does that make more sense?

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:52 pm Post Number: #31 Post
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Nord wrote:
Actually my PSO is a fantastic bowler who aggressively bowled in many leagues and tournaments and knew all about the balls he sold because he would drill one up of each and try them out or worked with other players to understand their reaction.
But, as happens in life, a year ago he got married and had a baby.
Now he only has time for them.
He quit bowling to do so and now just runs his pro shop to feed the family.
So he does not know what all these "new" balls react like because he doesn't try them out.
Does that make more sense?


So what the PSO meant to say was:
" No. I haven't bowled for the last year. So I have no idea how the most recently released balls really work now, so I can't make any recommendations on them. People just will have to make their own choices."

If he's going to feed his family off the proshop, he can't slack off. If a customer comes in and wants info on a new ball and you start saying "I don't know anything about it" that don't help sales one bit.

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:18 am Post Number: #32 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:

So what the PSO meant to say was:
" No. I haven't bowled for the last year. So I have no idea how the most recently released balls really work now, so I can't make any recommendations on them. People just will have to make their own choices."

If he's going to feed his family off the proshop, he can't slack off. If a customer comes in and wants info on a new ball and you start saying "I don't know anything about it" that don't help sales one bit.

But actually he told me that sales are just as good as they have always been.
Again, he said that it is all word of mouth that sells the balls.
Most league players come in and tell him I want a Code Red, or some other ball that they have heard about or seen others using and he just drills it up for them.

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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 648 bowled with Purple Hammer Urethane.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:16 pm Post Number: #33 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
staffers don't talk to PSO's, they talk to other league bowlers (staffers are league bowlers themselves).


Rob, you know better than this. Often time PSO's are staffers. My PSO is a Storm/Roto staffer.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:07 pm Post Number: #34 Post
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Maybe where you live, but in Vegas you can't walk into any center without tripping over a staffer every five feet!


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:19 pm Post Number: #35 Post
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Last Monday at Parkway bowl when our doubles league ended and the 5 man power teams came in, I saw three guys wearing Hammer Shirts.
Maybe these guys were Hammer Staffers???

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:56 pm Post Number: #36 Post
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Nord wrote:
Pro Bowling is basically hidden from view since it left the major networks and lost all its sponsorship.
Now if you want to see pro bowling you have to hunt on youtube to find some channel where some guy ripped it off his cable box and posted it for us.
Or watch it on the obscure ESPN 2 or CBS sports channel, channels I will not pay for since they are too expensive.
Extra Frame should be called Rip Off Frame.
Super low quality and crappy camera work, not worth subscribing.
Now maybe if they posted the matches in full 1080p and shot with broadcast 4k cameras and professional lighting and allowed you to download the matches then it would be worth it


PBA on ESPN the past few Sundays, with live matches. I wouldn't call that hidden, although it's definitely not the prime time spot that it once held on ABC.

XtraFrame could benefit from better production quality (cameras and lighting), but I find a lot of value in watching qualifying, hearing from the guest commentators (Petraglia, Belmonte, Roth, Lichstein recently). There is some very insightful stuff from time to time, and it's intended for bowlers. The last round of match play and position round tends to be far more interesting and dramatic than what we see on TV.

Back to the conversation about the "Magic Ball". This year I've focused on throwing one ball in league. Yes, I may have a few sitting in my locker in case of emergency - but 95% of my shots in one league have been Paradox and the other league, Primo. My average is up 4 & 8 pins this year, a result (I think) of focusing on good shot making and adjustments and not worrying (at all) about equipment.

There's obviously no single ball that will be "ideal" across all conditions, but there are lots of balls that will score on a THS because you always know the hook/hold are out there. Sometimes, less is more. We have to find the place that maximizes margin of error and make good shots.

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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:23 am Post Number: #37 Post
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I subscribed to X-tra Frame and canceled it after two weeks because the quality was so poor and you had to just stream it on your PC on a small window and could not download matches in full HD to later watch on your home theater TV.
I much prefer downloading the rips that are posted on youtube.
For heck's sake, this is the era of 4k.
Get a 4k camera and let's try to give the subscribers their money's worth.

Quote:
There's obviously no single ball that will be "ideal" across all conditions, but there are lots of balls that will score on a THS because you always know the hook/hold are out there. Sometimes, less is more. We have to find the place that maximizes margin of error and make good shots.

I was talking to the son of a pro shop operator who said to me: "House Shots are easy. All you have to do is create area."
For some reason this statement really pissed me off.
I struggle with House Shots.
I don't throw two handed and don't have the revs to create area and I can't use reactive resin cheater balls as they do nothing for my game.
I can't throw right of second arrow or the ball will roll out instantly if it is urethane and never come back if it is resin.
If I move too far inside the ball can't carry the corners.
I have to use only urethane and use very careful and straight lines in an exact area of the lane that I must hit perfectly every time or be punished.
House Shots have forced me to play a very limited part of the lane and be perfectly on day in and day out or disaster.
To me House Shots are harder than the Sport Shots I have bowled on.
I have attached a photo of how I am forced to play house shots.
After years of trying different balls and different paths to the pocket, this is the only line that works somewhat reliably.
With a Sport Shot, if I miss, the result is totally predictable.
On House Shots, when I miss, there is no guarantee what the heck will happen to me.
For years I have been scratching my head on House Shots and have been on a roller coaster ride.
I hate House Shots and wish they were gone.
Recently I have been bowling on some Sport Shots with a pretty flat pattern of no more than 1.8-1 and it has been a breath of fresh air.
It is so much more fun and so much more consistent in how it reacts.
If I make a good shot I get a strike almost every time and if I miss I know exactly what will happen.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:44 am Post Number: #38 Post
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A quick update:

As most of you know I recently got a Brunswick True Motion urethane ball and put an Axis Weight drill on it so it will not flare, will have the lowest RG of the core and is very stable going down the lane.
Basically no backend at all, it just rolls smoothly the whole way.
This has allowed me to move right into the dry and take advantage of the free hook that is right of second arrow.

I have had a great amount of success with this ball and I am doing much, much better.
It is looking like it could end up being my magic ball.

If you check out the pic below, you can see the old line I was forced to play with virtually any ball I used and the new line I can play with the True Motion.


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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 648 bowled with Purple Hammer Urethane.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:08 am Post Number: #39 Post
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I love this topic, because I only carry an arsenal of 3 balls at most with no spare ball. Simply just kill my release and throw it hard and straight at most spares. Most of the time I end up just using 2 or even 1 of the 3 I bring with me. My dad on the other hand has 50+ in his arsenal and counting. I maybe have 10 of my own. Personally for me I like physical adjustments such as speed and rev rate along with rotation and tilt versus trying to figure it out with equipment.

It's odd that I'm the young kid who has speed and hand whereas my dad is the one who is a shot maker relies on proper ball reaction among an array of bowling balls. If I'm still here and haven't shipped out for the army next season, maybe I'll drill up a urethane ball and a Roto Grip hustle ink. Urethane for dry lanes and hustle ink as my go to ball. It would be a fun experiment to see how much better I would bowl if I focus on making quality shots and spares versus creating area with a 250 dollar hook in a box ball.


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 Post subject: Re: One Magic Bowling Ball?
 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:35 pm Post Number: #40 Post
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SomyP wrote:
I love this topic, because I only carry an arsenal of 3 balls at most with no spare ball. Simply just kill my release and throw it hard and straight at most spares. Most of the time I end up just using 2 or even 1 of the 3 I bring with me. My dad on the other hand has 50+ in his arsenal and counting. I maybe have 10 of my own. Personally for me I like physical adjustments such as speed and rev rate along with rotation and tilt versus trying to figure it out with equipment.

It's odd that I'm the young kid who has speed and hand whereas my dad is the one who is a shot maker relies on proper ball reaction among an array of bowling balls. If I'm still here and haven't shipped out for the army next season, maybe I'll drill up a urethane ball and a Roto Grip hustle ink. Urethane for dry lanes and hustle ink as my go to ball. It would be a fun experiment to see how much better I would bowl if I focus on making quality shots and spares versus creating area with a 250 dollar hook in a box ball.

Try it for awhile, pick only one ball and force yourself to only use that one ball and see how you do.

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Rev rate: 150
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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 648 bowled with Purple Hammer Urethane.


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