Dispute over foul

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ads
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Dispute over foul

Post by ads »

Joined a team competition yesterday.

In the 2nd game, the foul line device alarmed during a delivery. The bowler said it was a false alarm and change the score himself. Other teams complained. The organizer said that there was a bowler from another team witnessed that it was not a foul.

Is this a valid judgement?
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Re: Dispute over foul

Post by bowl1820 »

ads wrote:Joined a team competition yesterday.

In the 2nd game, the foul line device alarmed during a delivery. The bowler said it was a false alarm and change the score himself. Other teams complained. The organizer said that there was a bowler from another team witnessed that it was not a foul.

Is this a valid judgement?
Since a League/Tournament official (The Organizer) had a witness from another team that stated it wasn't a foul, Then Yes IMO it was a fair call by the official.

(Though if this was a tournament the player shouldn't have changed the score themselves, Most Tournaments state that if a correction needs to be made. You are to get a Tournament official to change the score, not correct it yourself.)

If there wasn't a witness and/or official it would depend on just what your rules are in the Hong Kong Assoc. regarding fouls on just how it would be handled if the foul was disputed.

According to USBC rules here it would be handled this way:
Commonly Asked Questions – Rule 5a.
5a/1 What happens when there is a dispute over a foul call?
According to Rule 10, a provisional ball should be thrown when there is a controversy. A
provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul cannot be resolved by
the two team captains.
When a dispute over a foul occurs, the player shall complete the frame and then bowl one
provisional ball. The score sheet or printout and a record of both scores for the frame in which
the provisional delivery is made shall be kept. The protest must be referred to the league board
of directors for a decision.

Rule 10 – Provisional Ball
A provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul, legal pinfall or a dead ball is made and cannot be resolved by the two team captains or a tournament official.
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Re: Dispute over foul

Post by ads »

bowl1820 wrote:
Since a League/Tournament official (The Organizer) had a witness from another team that stated it wasn't a foul, Then Yes IMO it was a fair call by the official.

(Though if this was a tournament the player shouldn't have changed the score themselves, Most Tournaments state that if a correction needs to be made. You are to get a Tournament official to change the score, not correct it yourself.)

If there wasn't a witness and/or official it would depend on just what your rules are in the Hong Kong Assoc. regarding fouls on just how it would be handled if the foul was disputed.

According to USBC rules here it would be handled this way:
Commonly Asked Questions – Rule 5a.
5a/1 What happens when there is a dispute over a foul call?
According to Rule 10, a provisional ball should be thrown when there is a controversy. A
provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul cannot be resolved by
the two team captains.
When a dispute over a foul occurs, the player shall complete the frame and then bowl one
provisional ball. The score sheet or printout and a record of both scores for the frame in which
the provisional delivery is made shall be kept. The protest must be referred to the league board
of directors for a decision.

Rule 10 – Provisional Ball
A provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul, legal pinfall or a dead ball is made and cannot be resolved by the two team captains or a tournament official.

Thanks.

Ashamed that rules are never fully explained here, in writing or making reference to international rules (I doubt the organizer has ever read the rule book). The only one rule which I was told is "the organizer reserves all rights of the final decision".

My thought is either we trust the foul line device or the foul judge (or any judge) who examine the foul himself (we saw players stood still in front of the foul line and called for judge).

Witness a foul by someone sitting on the bench 20 feet away is difficult where the foul could be just 1/10". Call for a provisional ball may be a better treatment.

The story continued. At the end of the competition, the witness denied that he has said anything about the foul. What an embarrassing situation.
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Re: Dispute over foul

Post by snick »

What about witnesses that witnessed the witness?
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Re: Dispute over foul

Post by ads »

A further thought is USBC rules 5a applies to league where it is a team to team match. The result will largely affect those 2 teams. So consensus could be a resolution.

Yesterday competition is different. It based on 3-game total pinfall to determine winners. Every team tried to beat every other team, not just the one on the same pair. Every pin affects everyone.
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