Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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TomaHawk
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

Post by TomaHawk »

Smiley1994 wrote:That looks great! I would like to have that kind of shot/performance. What area of the country are you for coaching?
I'm located in the Detroit area.

I, absolutely, cannot take credit for Josh's success. He already had a fundamentally sound two hand approach before I got to know him. Also, his visualization skills are as good as it gets.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

Post by TonyPR »

Instruction from a coach who knows what they are doing, a disciplined and structured practice schedule, humility because success score wise will not be immediate and finally, if you are switching from one handed you have to stick to it, no changing back and forth.

My response in the Certified Coaching section.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

Post by LittleTiger »

To the original topic, getting more speed. There is some interesting videos on youtube.

Osku from side view:
[youtube][/youtube]
TonyPR wrote: Speed comes from timing, lag and the proper use of your legs, I'll elaborate as soon as I can, stay posted.
If I have understood this right this is where the lag is created. Look how ball is still going up but eye level is already going to down:
Osku_creating_the_lag.png

Offtopic: Friday evening joke, when you want really get speed to ball you throw it with one hand.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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That's the great thing about bowling, so many different techniques.

There are a lot of factors to consider, height, weight, physical condition, and last, but not least, mental disposition. Hopefully, you'll find the right combination for you!

(and yes, Josh is very, very, very good!)
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

Post by TonyPR »

Lag is the ball wanting to go the opposite direction (back) while the body and the slide are going aggressively forward towards the foul line, you will see that when this happens the elbows stretch but the ball remains at the same height, it doesn’t move.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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I do plan to stick with this. That's why I posted on here to get whatever help/information I can for practicing.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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Smiley1994 wrote:I do plan to stick with this. That's why I posted on here to get whatever help/information I can for practicing.
Great!

I have seen a lot of two hand bowlers, it's all the rage among newer and in particular, younger bowlers. To be honest, in the past, I would have never recommended anyone convert from a one to two handed release. I find myself making this recommendation on a regular basis now and for a variety of reasons too.

Right now, I'm working with a young fellow who is a very capable one hand bowler. He started coming for lessons. During the sessions, he would have a tendency to bounce the ball off the floor on his downswing. Kind of like dribbling a basketball. We tried to get him to stay higher at the line. It worked, but still, he would occasionally bounce the ball off the floor. It turned out, he is somewhat rare in terms of physical stature. His arms are longer than his legs! Perfect for the shorter arm swing as required with a fundamentally sound two hand approach. Since he has switched, his scores have soared.

As with anything, we can make it easy or complex. All the talk about lag, so on and so forth, is great! I just tend to think, the basis behind the two hand release is fundamentally simple. Why else would anyone do it ;)
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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I just posted 4 new videos of myself after a lesson I took over the weekend. Please feel free to critique.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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Footwork is smooth, you are stable at the foul line. I especially like the calm approach.

There are only a few things I noticed. (1) Your third step goes a little too far left which makes it difficult to get back to where the sliding foot should be at the point of release. Try to keep your approach on a straighter line from stance to release. (2) Try moving up on the approach. It may allow you to walk in a straighter line. (3) Keep your eyes fixated on the target until the ball travels through it.

At any rate, excellent! You're on your way!
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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I actually moved quite a bit forward. My feet are positioned in front of the dots. What was noticed from my initial video (the before) when getting the lesson was that I was a good foot or more behind the line at release. My leg was straighter causing me to pop up on release. This created a lot of pain on my left side. Now I am able to be much closer to the line and I stay down and in balance. Only thing now is that I have to learn to create that lag everyone here and in the coaching section on this site is talking about. It's the speed thing. I did bowl a tournament yesterday and performed better and my balance was so much better. I felt no discomfort and very comfortable repeating shots. Just have to deal with the speed. Also when my drift was checked, even though I do have the larger left 3rd step, my starting board and slide board were only 2 boards different. I do want to cut down on the left step for sure. I do watch Belmo video's a lot and notice he too has a pretty good step to the left. Unless I am seeing that incorrectly...
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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No problem with the left third step as long as you do it consistently. When you learn to keep your ball side elbow close to your torso you won’t need to cover many boards with that third step, about five boards will be more than enough, this will be helpful when playing inside. Notice Belmo does the same when playing deep but less so when playing straight up the boards with urethane. It is good that you end up consistently two boards left of where you start. What you don’t want to do is end up right of where you start and/or have inconsistencies in the number of boards you drift. We want to create space for the swing to be under your body (think head outside shoulder) to do this we use lateral spine tilt which should always be combined with forward spine tilt in order not to hurt yourself and yes, walking left on your third steps helps create that space.

Two handed bowling will cause stress on the untrained body, non athletic bowlers can get away bowling one handed, not so much two handed. You need to train your legs doing body weight squats and weight training, your back, lower back and your abs too. Not bodybuilding weight training but rather functional movement strength. This will prevent pain. If it hurts stop, rest for a few days and then go back. Always warm up before with dynamic stretches and do static stretches after you finish bowling, nobody does this, only some college athletes because their coaches instruct them to but it is a good thing.

As for the lag, it is a very basic and important thing to learn early when you are learning to bowl two handed as we need to learn not to throw with our upper body. Like Tomahawk said, bowling two handed is easy, doing it well at a higher level is not. My daughter, she’s 12, competed last summer in her first JrGold. Because of the two hurricanes that hit us, her league got canceled from September till January, started two Saturdays ago. On October when the bowling center opened she decided to switch to two hands because she understood that if she learned it well she would do much better in competition and was willing to sacrifice her score while she learned. Last November, a month after she decided to change to two hands, we went to Kegel and took a full day lesson with my friend Del Warren, he has coached Belmo, Jesper, Kyle Troup and Matt Russo to name a few. He knew that my daughter had just made the change as he had coached her before twice. He also knew that I am a certified coach who bowls two handed and coaches some two handed youth. What I am passing on is exactly what he teached us. Basic two handed lesson for both plus two handed coaching lesson for me.

...oh and one small correction, it’s a two handed approach, we release the ball with one hand, not a two handed release.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

Post by TonyPR »

A good illustration of lag is Belmo’s insignia, you see it on his shirt and on Storm Timeless. I believe he chose it because it ilustrates the power that bowling with a two handed approach can potentially generate.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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You''ll go through an experimentation process. Everyone is different. My philosophy is to keep it simple.

Let's talk about lag for a second. Simply, it's the ability to wait on the ball. The short transition between the fourth and fifth step creates lag. It's at that point where the bowler must resist the urge, psychologically, to accelerate the ball.

Speed, like anything, is most easily accomplished in a straight forward line. It also helps create accuracy. (Imagine a sprinter taking a giant step left?) Physically, you may have to "drift left", but it would be good if you could somewhat diminish it.

Right now, we all see Belmonte. In all actuality, I think Josh is as good or maybe even a little better. He has the ability to control every aspect of the approach. And, he does it so simply.

In terms of power? The fellow I mentioned earlier is only 16 and a natural athlete. He can develop the highest rev rate, coupled with the highest ball speed I have ever seen, (being from the Detroit area, I've seen a lot). Great! It is a natural gift.

Now, he is learning to apply it simply / calmly.

You really are getting there. Don't overload your brain. Bowling is a walk in the park.....with style
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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I sure hope I am. I feel like I am doing ok in my 2nd season and I am trying hard to smooth things out and make it easily repeatable. Also, I need to match speed and rev rate. That's my biggest thing I feel. After looking at my latest video's I posted, I also look like I wrap the ball inside a bit, and that might be causing myself to get around on it too early.

Where in Detroit are you? I am willing to drive to get the right help. I live in the Grand Rapids area.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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Grand Rapids?

We have at least a few people who make the drive!

In the mean time, you will "wrap" the ball simply because of the drift. Particularly, with the more compact style the two approach incorporates, the ball / swing just naturally follows. Try to get the footwork as straight as possible. With the two hand delivery, that means, keep the hips open throughout the entire approach.

You can pm me for further information.

btw: I'm certain there are people on BC who are somewhat curious, Josh's highest year book average: 252
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

Post by TonyPR »

A good thing to keep in mind when you are working on speed is your goal, 17 mph monitor speed should be good enough for you. I agree with what Tomahawk says about keeping it smooth and simple, speed shouldn’t be forced by muscle. It’s a good idea to work your way up in lbs. If you can be smooth with a 12 lbs ball and give it around 16 mph monitor use that until you can smoothly give it 17 mph consistently then move up to 13 lbs and so on focusing on proper technique.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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Smiley1994 wrote:I just posted 4 new videos of myself after a lesson I took over the weekend. Please feel free to critique.
Based on these I repeat my earlier tip to focus to keep a hand behind of ball.

Here you can see how early you hand is side of ball:
hand on side of the ball.png
And here you can see that Osku keeps his hand behind of the ball still on release:
hand behind of ball.png
I would also suggest to practice throw "backup ball". That way you can see that how long you actually can keep hand behind of ball and still make it hook enough.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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Just for the sake of conversation, there are certain techniques which are inherent to the bowler's mental approach to the game. There is really no way of knowing who is better, they bowl a certain way because it enable them to score. Scoring is everything right?

In one hand bowling, we look to get the ankle as close to the ball as possible. This means, the foot will remain in a relatively straight path toward the target. Look at the end position of Osku vs. Josh. In particular, notice the direction the slide foot is facing at the point of release. Josh has the unique ability get his entire body pointed directly at his target. Fundamentally, it is a much more sound technique.

I've seen 'em all, Josh's technique ranks right up there with the best, if not the best.
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

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TomaHawk wrote:Just for the sake of conversation, there are certain techniques which are inherent to the bowler's mental approach to the game. There is really no way of knowing who is better, they bowl a certain way because it enable them to score. Scoring is everything right?
Yes. "The last time I watched bowling, the bowler who knocked down the most pins won.
It was not necessarily the bowler who hit the pocket the most, or hooked it the most."
- Mo Pinel (source...)
TomaHawk wrote:In one hand bowling, we look to get the ankle as close to the ball as possible. This means, the foot will remain in a relatively straight path toward the target. Look at the end position of Osku vs. Josh. In particular, notice the direction the slide foot is facing at the point of release. Josh has the unique ability get his entire body pointed directly at his target. Fundamentally, it is a much more sound technique.

I've seen 'em all, Josh's technique ranks right up there with the best, if not the best.
Yea. Youngsters will break all the records. It is just matter of time. Osku and Belmo developed 2-hander technique on time when there were no coaches for it. Now there is.

Look Finland's "next Osku" Pyry Puharinen on lane 26
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Re: Increasing ball speed for 2-hander

Post by TonyPR »

We as coaches must be careful about using a cookie cutter approach, every bowler is different and we as coaches must listen to what the player’s goals are. If a player wishes to achieve their highest potential and wants to work towards this goal, care should be taken to teach the proper fundamentals in a way that feels comfortable and at the same time is in tune with the athlete’s physique and personality. Coaches must also be careful when looking at cause and effect, the release is usually the effect, yes he is going around the ball and yes doing a backup drill will help fix this but one must work one thing at a time and in my opinion there are other things that should be addressed first.

Different coaches will have different opinions and ways of teaching. The athlete must choose one coach and follow his or her method.
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