Teaching my kid

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Phonetek
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Teaching my kid

Post by Phonetek »

Hi, I'm new here. I've been a bowler since I was 6. Unfortunately I haven't done it regularly for the last 10yrs or so for no other reason than life happens. Last week friends came in from out of town and suggested bowling. Needless to say, it certainly gave me "the itch" once again to want to hit it hard again. None of my 3 kids really cared anything about bowling other than to go cosmic bowling to chuck a glowing ball because it looks cool while listening to hippity hop music.
To my surprise my 13yr old son was watching me like a hawk and was in awe that I was shooting in the lower to mid 200 games. I told him that I used to be super dedicated and most weeks shot 60 games between practice and 3 leagues. He was just in shock and didn't know dad did things like that. We never really went bowling together because he's more into baseball, soccer, basketball and such so I didn't think he'd have much interest. Well, now it's all he's been talking about. He asked if I could teach him. Of course I have no problem with that, I'm his dad. However, only if he will take it seriously. Suffice it to say he's more than convinced me he will.
I did the obvious first step by teaching him the 4 step approach. Unfortunately, money is lacking so I had to settle with doing it at home. He can still go through the motions without being on a lane, I know I did when I was taught. He literally practices the approach hours a day sliding through half the house on the wood floors. He even puts on my Linds because somehow a 13 yr old and I both have the same size foot, go figure. Aside from a few scuffs on the floor it's working well for him.
Currently he of course has zero equipment. For starters I don't see getting him anything other than a plastic ball to learn with. We will have to figure out the proper weight for him to start with but I'm sure 16lbs will be way too much. Therefore, I'll go with plastic since it will probably only be 12lbs give or take and it won't be long before he will be moving up in weight they way these kids grow. Plus I think he needs to worry more about learning and perfecting that approach before worrying about hook. My question to you all is, do I just start him out with fingertip right out of the gate? He's literally only bowled a handful of times, green as can be so it's not like he's used to conventional. My thinking is of course he's going to try to hook it no matter what but with a conventional I think it will only end up teaching him to throw with topspin vs. a nice 3/4 roll. Not that you can't do topspin with fingertip. What do you all think?
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by JohnP »

Answers to your questions depend to a great degree on your son's strength and natural aptitude for bowling. For a beginner youngster his age with normal strength and aptitude I'd suggest a 13 lb ball and conventional grip. If he has a football-type build and strength I might go up to 14 lb, if he's not as well developed I'd go down to 12 lbs. And if he had an unusually good natural timing and release I might, in very few instances (and usually with a youngster that has already had a conventionally gripped ball), suggest a fingertip grip.

You're right that he is going to want to hook the ball, and a plastic ball will be hard to make hook, an entry-level reactive resin ball will be easier to hook. But at his age he's probably going to grow enough that the ball won't fit him after one year. So you're going to have to balance the extra cost of a reactive resin ball with the frustration he'll probably have from not being able to hook the plastic ball.

I'm sorry I can't give you a definitive answer, but hope you can take these guidelines and make a good decision for your son. -- JohnP
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by Phonetek »

No apology necessary, I wasn't expecting definitive answers merely opinions.

As far as getting him a reactive ball, that isn't gonna happen for his first ball regardless of price. Dad gets one first LOL Right now the way I see it he has one thing to worry about learning and one thing only. Master the approach. Being able to complete the approach WITHOUT falling on his rear at the foul line would be great. He needs to slow down. Hitting pins is only a bonus right now. I wish I could train him on a lane without pins because score at this point is irrelevant. To quote Mr. Miyagi "First you learn walk, before you learn fly Daniel Son"

For a ball he only needs something round that is drilled for his fingers and a weight he's able to throw. Weight determination is easy. All I did way back when was hold a different weight balls by my side for 15-20 seconds. If I had to struggle to hold it then I went to a lighter one until I found one I could. I assume that method would still work today. He's definitely built much bigger than I was at his age but by age 13 I was already throwing a fingertip 16lb LT-51 and Moss Red Dot and averaging 170's. However, he's not me and I'm not going to rush that. Gonna take everything slow, he's not going to be on a league until fall so we have many months to work on everything. I was just curious about grip since he isn't "used to" anything at this point.
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by ballspoint »

Phonetek, great attitude for your son in how your going to teach him, going slow and learn the basic's first. I read alot and learn from the Coaching Forum pages, look at those comments and videos, those alone teach you alot, what wrong and how to right it, plus its free, the coaching forum guys are great. Get your son to understand he has to get the basics right first as that is the most important part, to bowl well and to strike/spare. Dont forget about yourself, plenty of help here for suggestions about a new ball.
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Re: Teaching my kid

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ballspoint wrote:Phonetek, great attitude for your son in how your going to teach him, going slow and learn the basic's first. I read alot and learn from the Coaching Forum pages, look at those comments and videos, those alone teach you alot, what wrong and how to right it, plus its free, the coaching forum guys are great. Get your son to understand he has to get the basics right first as that is the most important part, to bowl well and to strike/spare. Dont forget about yourself, plenty of help here for suggestions about a new ball.

Funny you mention video's. I actually pulled out training video's taken of myself when I was a kid bowling. I had to dust off a VHS player LOL Wish we had cell phones then to whip out and record video on. I had to have my friends dad bring this giant camcorder with a tripod to do it for me. Then I found all my Nelson Burton Jr. video's from way back including the "Tip of the week" I used to NEVER miss. Plus my crown jewel of my collection, the day I got to bowl with Bob "Hookin" Hanley. Talk about a happy kid I was that day. My son has watched those tapes over and over. I have to say even though we haven't hit the lanes yet, I'm very impressed with my son and the interest he is taking. It's all he talks about so I'm a proud Dad already. As for myself and a new ball I already posted in "Ball Talk" yesterday LOL
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by TonyPR »

Welcome back to bowling! It is great that you now have a good healthy and fun sport you and your son can do together. Many opportunities for college bowling too so who knows if he gets hooked to the point he gets really good and you don't have to pay for college.

The game has changed a lot, my advice would be to teach him the modern game from day 1. Here is a link to a training video series from the Kegel Training Center (google it). In the videos there are different drills he can do progressively as he masters the previous one, from walking without the ball to releasing with no step to swing and slide to three steps.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ence_video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can get him a used 13 lbs ball very cheap, when you find one ask me before buying. Drill it conventional at first. He can learn how to roll hook the ball without trying, it's all about hand position and letting the ball roll off his hand. In today's game we don't lift or hit up on the ball like we did in the old days, it's more about being smooth and letting the ball do the work.

A good pair of bowling shoes is also very important and in my opinion even more important than a ball but they can be expensive. I recommend a pair with a push away sole on his ball side foot and a slide sole on his slide foot. Having a slide sole on both shoes will make it nearly impossible for him to learn to use his legs to add power to the shot, a must in today's game

You may also want to buy one of those 2.5-5 lbs plastic/rubber training balls at Walmart to train off the lanes. These are very useful to practice in front of a mirror without releasing it or to roll it at each other.

It is great you want to teach your kid but my advice would be to do it under the supervision of a certified coach in your area. We are trained to look at cause and effect so we can help the athlete in a simple and efficient way. You could have him take a lesson every other week where you are present and can video him then follow up what was addressed for two weeks before the other lesson, since you are an experienced bowler this will be easy and fun to do. Download Hudl Technique app on your smart phone to film and share videos, it has slow motion feature, lets you pause and scroll forward and back and you can even draw lines to check for alignment.

You can also post videos in the certified coaching section of this forum and have us take a look.

Please keep us informed of his progress.
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by TonyPR »

Check these out too:

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ease_Video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by Phonetek »

It's really changed that much in 10 years? It honestly didn't seem like it when we went. Used the same old stuff and threw it the same way and shot 240 something and I wasn't in competition mode. I'm only a mid level cranker, I have a lot of velocity because I have long legs. I do use lift though I admit. I can adjust though. To solve the problem I'll take a half step back on the approach and change my target from the arrows to the dots. Making my target closer gives me an earlier release point and slows my speed down.
Given what you said I am intrigued and I can't wait to hit the lanes again to check this out. I mean on my own, not with friends just having fun. That way I can analyze it better. Plus there are 3 different houses fairly close I can go to. I may check them out and see how it varies between them. Who knows, maybe shooting those deuces after all this time was just luck? I'm certainly open to the possibility. Once I see how I have to alter my game then it will give me a better idea on how to teach him properly. I really need to get some new equipment though. I don't know if my outdated stuff is the best way to gauge changes. I really appreciate your input Tony
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by TonyPR »

Not luck but skill, 240s is awesome! Don't think the game has changed much in 10 years but today's players are thought very different than when you started (referenced from the balls you talked about in your other thread). A great way to know how you are doing is to have the lane man put up a sport pattern and bowl 3-4 games on a pair with two or three other bowlers of your level. Like I said in the other thread, get me your specs and I would be more than glad to help you set up an arsenal for the conditions you intend to play, you seem to have your physical game good and consistent from many years of bowling, if that is the case new equipment will help a lot.
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by LookingForALeftyWall »

Phonetek, my Dad started teaching me how to bowl when I was 10 - a little younger than where your son is now. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time and lessons he gave me. Best of luck to you and him.
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Re: Teaching my kid

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LookingForALeftyWall wrote:Phonetek, my Dad started teaching me how to bowl when I was 10 - a little younger than where your son is now. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time and lessons he gave me. Best of luck to you and him.
Thank you. It makes me feel good that he is interested in doing something that I can teach him to do. There isn't too many things I can say I was particularly good at besides bowling so yeah it's a great feeling. I do wish I started sooner with him but who was to know? Had I not taken my 10yr hiatus I'm sure it would have. I can see the same light in his eyes I had so I have no doubts he will do great and love it like I do. I look forward to the day where I go to the lanes with him and he whoops my butt. Dad still knows what he's doing but Dad's getting old pretty quick.
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by MegaMav »

The game has changed a lot over the years.
The coach teaching your son should be familiar with the modern game, not the rubber game from the 70s.
Completely different.

bebowling.com is really good so far. "B" & "E" means Borden and Edwards.
Always worth the price of admission.
You can also read our certified coaching section here and look at how coach Merrell breaks down the game.
Best scenario, find a modern coach with experience to teach your son to bowl the right way.

Posting where you are located or putting it in your profile would help give some direction on a modern coach in your area.
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Re: Teaching my kid

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I'm in Chicago, IL. We've been watching some instructional videos I downloaded from youtube. I started with the old Nelson Burton Jr. Tip videos, a Dick Weber one and a newer one that was recent I can't remember the name. Right now I'm starting him on the fundamentals of the 4 step approach, etiquette, score keeping so he understands what's on the screen and the rules. He will be getting his ball, shoes and bag soon. Right now everything he is learning is at the house not the bowling alley. I'm out of work so I can't afford the lanes just yet. He practices the approach countless hours a day just going through the motions and watching the videos over and over.
We actually dug out a bowling set from when they were little and as ridiculous as it sounds is teaching him a lot like pin location among other this. Luckily we have hardwood floors similar to those at a bowling alley and a very long hallway. I substituted the cheesy plastic ball with a 12" softball, much quieter. It's going to take him a while to get good at the approach and much longer to master. Once he's gotten good enough (at the lanes) with the approach then I will get to the more intricacies and modern game. I don't want to move to fast and give him an information overload. I feel the game has changed but the basics are still the basics and those haven't changed.
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by Jp6940 »

I have twin daughters... One took to bowling immediately and the other didn't.
I bought her a 9lb plastic ball and in less than a year, she has gone from 60 games to 130 games! She is 13.
I just opted to get her an ebonite cyclone in 10lbs. Not many balls have an actual core in light weights.
We also decided to go fingertip and she is taking to it very well.
Now we are working on consistency and proper balance at the foul line.
I'm extremely impressed with how fast she has progressed and how much she loves bowling!
In my opinion at this age, she is still having FUN and I don't want to ruin it for her.
During league I merely ask her from time to time "what do you think you are doing wrong?" I don't want to be a nag...
Many times she knows what she is doing wrong. Occasionally I will ask "did you hit your arrow?"
If she doesn't know-she isn't paying attention!
SOOO much fun with kids! I love it.
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Re: Teaching my kid

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Jp6940 wrote:I have twin daughters... One took to bowling immediately and the other didn't.
I bought her a 9lb plastic ball and in less than a year, she has gone from 60 games to 130 games! She is 13.
I just opted to get her an ebonite cyclone in 10lbs. Not many balls have an actual core in light weights.
We also decided to go fingertip and she is taking to it very well.
Now we are working on consistency and proper balance at the foul line.
I'm extremely impressed with how fast she has progressed and how much she loves bowling!
In my opinion at this age, she is still having FUN and I don't want to ruin it for her.
During league I merely ask her from time to time "what do you think you are doing wrong?" I don't want to be a nag...
Many times she knows what she is doing wrong. Occasionally I will ask "did you hit your arrow?"
If she doesn't know-she isn't paying attention!
SOOO much fun with kids! I love it.
My son has been doing well. We've went 4 times now and each time he gets progressively better. I don't mean a little bit either. He's really working hard at it and I've very proud. The one thing that has helped the most is I make sure to record each session with wifey's iPad. It's a bit difficult while giving instruction and tends to look like an episode of COPS without the heavy breathing of the cameraman trying to keep up in a foot chase. However, during instruction I'll prop it up on the table with a house ball on it's thumb hole. When it's time for him to throw I make sure to capture everything I can from as many angles as I can. Of course I'm not gonna stand on the lanes but if I get an end lane I can get a front view. Once we get home I throw it on a thumb drive, pop it in the TV and we can watch it on the big screen and do slow motion. It is such a valuable tool. He also records me. He actually pointed out some things I was doing wrong LOL I also take a pic of our games when were done, bring them home and write them out on a piece of paper. Then I make him calculate the scores. You'd be shocked how many people have no idea how to keep score. So yes, taking that video is a great tool. He watches himself over and over and over then we put together a game plan on what to work on the next session. I hope this help.
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by TomaHawk »

I have coached both high school and collegiate with good success, there is no greater feeling than to see someone who is honestly captivated by the game.

Good for you and your son!
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Re: Teaching my kid

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TomaHawk wrote:I have coached both high school and collegiate with good success, there is no greater feeling than to see someone who is honestly captivated by the game.

Good for you and your son!

I appreciate that. Yeah it's all he thinks about and talks about. I wish he could get more time on the lanes than he does but things are tight right now. I planned on having his equipment for him by now too but that's gonna have to wait a bit longer. I know when he gets his own ball and shoes it's gonna help more than anything. I'm sorta between gigs right now but I'm seeing if I can get into one of the local houses doing something. I don't care if it's spraying bowling shoes and getting pins out of the gutter at this point. It's not glamorous but money is money, plus maybe I can get a discount to get him on the lanes. I'm not sure about that but it would be a plus but then again so is a paycheck. As his instructor it's a great thrill to see him progress each time. He wants to get good enough to get on a league but he knows he's not ready for that yet. He's shooting for a summer league but I've never been on one that I actually enjoyed. I'm thinking fall giving us all summer to get him ready. I have little doubt he couldn't average at least 120-140 by fall with how quickly he's picking up on everything. Time will tell.
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Re: Teaching my kid

Post by JohnP »

He wants to get good enough to get on a league but he knows he's not ready for that yet.
Don't let ability prevent him from bowling in a junior league, handicap evens the playing field. I started in a junior league as a high school junior in 1962, averaged 126 my first season and had a great time. In my senior year I averaged 156 and was proud to take the most improved award. I made a lot of friends in the league, most of whom were from other high schools and never would have met otherwise. -- JohnP
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Re: Teaching my kid

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JohnP wrote:
Don't let ability prevent him from bowling in a junior league, handicap evens the playing field. I started in a junior league as a high school junior in 1962, averaged 126 my first season and had a great time. In my senior year I averaged 156 and was proud to take the most improved award. I made a lot of friends in the league, most of whom were from other high schools and never would have met otherwise. -- JohnP
I have no doubt he can do well in a league. Summer leagues in my opinion and experience leave a lot to be desired. Tons of no shows because of nice weather, vacations and too many goofs breeding a non-competitive atmosphere. He doesn't have any desire to join the summer league thus far. He wants to be better before being on a team. That's his choice. I would support him either way. If he wants to join a summer league I would surely grant his request. I'll be there anyway taking video and playing my role as coach. Right now he's quite comfortable just practicing with me. He isn't embarrassed to throw it in the channel if it happens. However, that's in front of dad / coach. In front of school chums and girls may be a different story.
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