Adjusting

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pjape
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Adjusting

Post by pjape »

Last night in league was a great example of how us THS bowlers do very poorly at adjusting. Here is the top ten showing the greatest drop from game two to game three. Yours truly is #3. :o

233 156 77 pins
242 168 74 "
233 166 67 "
257 191 66 "
212 147 65 "
226 162 64 "
244 189 55 "
241 187 54 "
266 216 50 "
245 202 43 "

Hopefully I can learn from this and make faster adjustments and eliminate that pesky sucky game three. I think the most important thing for all of us is to have no preconceived notions as to when and how much the lanes are going to break down. Just when you think you have it figured out, the next week it's totally different. My preconceived notion last night was "since there are three bowlers missing (bad weather), the lanes won't break down as much." WRONG!!
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Re: Adjusting

Post by EricHartwell »

Interesting 3rd game results. My issue has just about always been the 2nd game. The year end tally sheets tell me the same thing year after year. My 2nd game average is almost always the lowest. I have had a couple of years where my average for each game went up every game. Those were in the years when I was in my prime and carrying my highest averages.

I think my issue is not making a large enough move in the 2nd game. I inevitably leave a split or 2 before I finally catch up to the transition. It shows up more when I have bowlers playing inside of me and my first move to the inside puts me into an already used line so it burns up faster than the fresh condition.
Quite often I either change balls or make a move to start the 3rd game. I try to explore inside lines during practice so I can automatically move there or switch balls knowing where to target. It works out best If I can use my fill ball at the end of the 2nd game to explore my 3rd game options.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by TonyPR »

Wait, I don't understand... Third games are all sub 100 games?
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Re: Adjusting

Post by BigDog »

The third number is the difference between games two and three:

233 - 156 = 77, 242 - 168 = 74, etc.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by TonyPR »

Ok, makes more sense now.

When making adjustments there are two things I like to see, one is skid-hook-roll and where is the ball making those transitions and the second thing is on what board does the ball leave the pin deck.

Many options for adjustments: different ball, ball speed, rpms, loft, axis rotation, axis tilt, feet, eyes and/or any combination of the above.

It's also necessary to be aware of what lines other bowlers are playing, how they are playing them and what ball are they using.

It is a very technical nerdy sport... or one can just have a few beers if the brain begins to overact :shock: :lol:
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Re: Adjusting

Post by TonyPR »

Oh and another thing, one needs to be brave and trust intuition, often times we decide to adjust when it's too late. Always ask the question: Was it me or the lane? If it was the lane then adjust.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by RobMautner »

pjape: Could you possibly post the first game scores as well?
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Re: Adjusting

Post by pjape »

RobMautner wrote:pjape: Could you possibly post the first game scores as well?
Here are the game one scores in the same order:

173
180
224
235
177
165
290
280
234
235

The ones I find the most interesting are: #4, who is the owner of the house. He's a very good bowler and one would think he would know every lane in the house. #'s 7 and 8 are interesting considering the high scores of game one. Both of these guys play very straight and can repeat shots very well. But, the #8 guy was on the pair beside me, and I could see him go higher and higher in game three, but he didn't seem to move at all.

When you get right down to it, at the PBA level, isn't adjusting the most important thing? All the guys on Tour have good physical games and can repeat shots. At the end of the day though, it's the one who plays the lanes correctly and makes the best adjustments who wins. I attended the US Open several times, and it's so obvious how much better the pros are than the amateurs in this skill.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by RobMautner »

So here are all the scores together:

173 233 156 187.3 avg
180 242 168 196.7 avg
224 233 166 207.7 avg
235 257 191 227.7 avg
177 212 147 178.7 avg
165 226 162 184.3 avg
290 244 189 241.0 avg
280 241 187 236.0 avg
234 266 216 238.7 avg
235 245 202 227.3 avg

averages per game

219.2 239.9 178.4

Overall Average = 212.5

Some observations:

Every single bowler had their low game in game 3.
Only two bowlers were able to shoot 200 for all three games.
8 out of 10 bowlers had their high game in game 2.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by LittleTiger »

Did I understand right that in US normal league competitions are just three games?
And someone will do lane maintenance before next three games?

That is interesting because here in Finland most of the competitions are six games and it is quite normal that highest scores/most of 300 games have been seen on last two games (because there is more room of error for those who are able to find correct place to play).
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Re: Adjusting

Post by pjape »

LittleTiger wrote:Did I understand right that in US normal league competitions are just three games?
And someone will do lane maintenance before next three games?

That is interesting because here in Finland most of the competitions are six games and it is quite normal that highest scores/most of 300 games have been seen on last two games (because there is more room of error for those who are able to find correct place to play).
Wow, league is six games in Finland? I'm assuming you don't have five players teams. A typical league session of three games with ten bowlers, including the warm up time, is around two hours and 45 minutes. Obviously, six games like this would not work at all time-wise, plus I can't imagine what the lanes would be like by game six.

Please let us know how you do it in Finland. Maybe we here in the US might learn something. ;)
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Re: Adjusting

Post by ballspoint »

In NZ 6 games would be singles, 3 games dbl or 4 / 5 person team.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by LittleTiger »

pjape wrote:Wow, league is six games in Finland?
Ahaa so you was talking about team league?

In Finland singles are more common (you can partiticate even multiple times on day) and there normally is two persons on one lane and we play 6 six games.
But on some alleys they actually play two 6 games blocks with same lane maintenance and highest scores are more often made on second block.
One of there blocks takes normally about 2h - 2h 30min to play.
pjape wrote:I'm assuming you don't have five players teams. A typical league session of three games with ten bowlers, including the warm up time, is around two hours and 45 minutes.
On team games which we have about once of month we have 4 or 5 person teams. There number of games depends of number of teams (every team plays agaist of every team) but normally it is six games.
Lane maintenance after three games are done only on highest level (Finnish Championship) league so on other levels we really are playing six games with five member teams without lane maintenance between games so lanes are very dry on last games.
pjape wrote:Obviously, six games like this would not work at all time-wise,
These takes normally whole day (6-8 hours) to play so they are on weekends.
pjape wrote:plus I can't imagine what the lanes would be like by game six.
Well end of games these players who are able to are playing quite deep inside and rest are struggling.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by LittleTiger »

pjape wrote:Please let us know how you do it in Finland. Maybe we here in the US might learn something. ;)
After for while I played in the league today so here it comes.

We played five games and there were four players on each team.
Oil pattern was like this:
VS-270118.jpg
And what comes to an original topic about adjusting. I started by having a foot on board 13 and target between first and second arrows. And on fifth game, I had a foot on 27th board and target between third and fourth arrows.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by pjape »

I have to add that I think I'm getting better at adjusting. Although I had a dismal game one, which was totally bad shot-making, games two and three went pretty well.

By game three they were really hooking, but I kept moving left when the ball went slightly high, even on strikes. More important, I watched the ball reaction of some of the other bowlers, and would adjust off of that. There were some pretty good bowlers on the other team, so that did make it easier.

I was pleased with the fact that I was the only bowler on the pair that had zero opens and zero splits in the last game. I didn't score that high (224), but I love clean games. I've often said I'd rather have a clean series than a 700. Missing spares infuriates me (like the five or six in game one). :evil:
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Re: Adjusting

Post by krava »

I didn't want to make a new thread for this. To get good adjusting practice, wouldn't it be a good idea to wait until a league is over with and then bowl 1 game on 2 lanes, then move down to the next pair and bowl a game and so on? I am not saying for you to do it. I am saying it in general for anyone that wants to work on adjust. I did that tonight. The only previous knowledge that you have is that their might be 4-5 bowlers that bowled 3 games on each of the lanes. Other then that you have no other info.

To me, this will teach you to watch your ball motion. This will also teach you to ajust quickly since you only get 1 game on the lane. With 3 games bowled with alot of people that know how to bowl, I assumed the track area was burned up and started at 12. The crazy thing is that each lane bascially played the same. Start targeting 12 out to 10 and back in. 212, 215, 193 (split 1st frame had to make 1 board left adjustment), 224 . Throwing the ball out and in is alot more forgiving then going down 8. But throwing it out and in, you have to make sure you release it correctly to get the spin/tilt on the ball so it can roll right.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by RobMautner »

I think that you are missing the point. You, like most typical house bowlers play where you like to play. What you are missing is the fact that you can play from most anywhere you like, but you have to be perfect to do it. The whole idea of adjusting is to create area where you can miss and still strike. It sounds like you were throwing the ball pretty well when you tried your experiment. I have a hunch that the results may have been very different on a night when your game was not at its best.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by LittleTiger »

krava wrote:I didn't want to make a new thread for this. To get good adjusting practice, wouldn't it be a good idea to wait until a league is over with and then bowl 1 game on 2 lanes, then move down to the next pair and bowl a game and so on? I am not saying for you to do it. I am saying it in general for anyone that wants to work on adjust. I did that tonight.
Yea, I suggested similar idea earlier for you on this post.
krava wrote:The only previous knowledge that you have is that their might be 4-5 bowlers that bowled 3 games on each of the lanes. Other then that you have no other info.
I would say that you can learn more if you look couple of last frames and see where others are playing on league. Then you know where to start.
krava wrote:To me, this will teach you to watch your ball motion. This will also teach you to ajust quickly since you only get 1 game on the lane.
I would suggest you try to move too much inside. That way you can learn how much you can move and still hit the pocket. Little bit light hit will only leave 10 pin which is much easier to spare than if you leave split.
krava wrote:With 3 games bowled with alot of people that know how to bowl, I assumed the track area was burned up and started at 12. The crazy thing is that each lane bascially played the same. Start targeting 12 out to 10 and back in. 212, 215, 193 (split 1st frame had to make 1 board left adjustment), 224 . Throwing the ball out and in is alot more forgiving then going down 8. But throwing it out and in, you have to make sure you release it correctly to get the spin/tilt on the ball so it can roll right.
Where are you targeting on vertically? To arrows? To breakpoint? Somewhere else?
Move from 8th board to 12th board on arrows is nothing but on breakpoint it is quite big change especially if you are moving your feet to inside more.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by krava »

I pulled the breakpoint from 8 to 10. I did that today that allows miss room on both sides. I didn't move more left because I had good ball roll motion and was carrying. The problem with playing left is that I don't know how to pick up left hand spares such as the 2 4 by throwing a strike ball at it. Usually you move one board right, give it a little less speed and that can get the 2 pin. If you move right and the area is burned up, your ball doesn't hook as much and maybe miss on the right. The best thing is probably throw a straight ball at a 2 4 or 8 pin when the track area is burned out or maybe pull the break point in a board or so and throw the normal strike ball to get the ball to go Brooklyn?

Rob: My game was not the best. I let a few go right, pulled a few. Missed single pin spares I shouldn't. Bascially same as what I have been doing lately. The practice night (yesterday), pulled several left, let a few go out right, 1st and last game was clean 2nd game missed a corner, 3rd game split and missed a 7 or 10 and also chopped something. Today 1st game clean but had bad wet/dry reaction with the timeless on a fresh shot with very dry back ends. 2nd game missed 3 easy spares. Pulled my hand over the ball and chopped 4 7. Missed 1 10 pin, went out a bit right missed a 9 pin. 3rd game didn't loft the ball out and dropped it a bit and missed a 8. 213 193 224 Last thus 209 199 214 just stupid spares missed here and there. But still missing left and right, not really accurate as of lately for some reason. I can play deeper now because I was turning my hand way too early before I released the ball and that killed revs and everything. I think I am not that accurate right now because of learning to turn my hand later and not before the ball gets to my leg in the downswing. It takes awhile to lean a sort of new release.

If I am on the side of the ball I can play down and in. if I get behind the ball and come out late with a little quarter turn, I can play inside angles. If I stay completely behind the ball and come out with my hand flat, I have a perfect straight ball.

I am going to use a strong ball from the start tomorrow and see what happens. I have struggled the entire year with that lane condition on thurs. But I can definitely see where playing a bit inside has a definite advantage.
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Re: Adjusting

Post by 44boyd »

Krava, you’re missing the point of practice. Quit caring about scores during practice, maybe do that for a last game but the others should be focused on one thing. It can be delaying your wrist turn, practicing hitting 12 at the arrows and 8 at the breakpoint, shoot at 2-4 spare for the first shot of a frame, etc..

That one thing should be the only thing that matters, if you leave a split hitting 15 to 7 who cares. The point is being able to hit 15 to 7 when the lanes are playing that way.
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