Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

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Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by bowl1820 »

Chad Murphy made a post on Facebook about the lofting, Basically he say's there's a shot there (over by the ditch) and all those's pros out there just don't know what their doing lofting the ball.

Like Walter Ray Williams whose having to loft the gutter see video below:
Neil Stremmel: So WRW is playing them wrong?
Chad Murphy: For his style and rev rate yes. It doesn’t change the fact he’s one of the best ever though, he is.
Neil Stremmel: For his style and rev rate he should never play them that deep. If there's a good shot right, I think he'd find it - or know he should be out there. I was sarcastically wondering why he thought he needed to be there...?


https://www.facebook.com/chad.murphy.393


Chad Murphy:

"U.S. Open update.

Three videos below. These three guys are in 7th, 12th and 14th. The first two were on the double burn game five last night. Then, Belmonte on the fresh yesterday. If you only saw these three videos would you think there was anything wrong with the event?

The three Bowlers using the extreme loft that has been circulated throughout the internet are in 64th, 69th and 128th at this point.

Which group is playing them correctly? The results would say, the first group. When it’s stated we “forced” everyone to loft, well, that looks suspect in these three videos. Based on the data, It looks like maybe we penalized those who did. To be clear, it’s a choice the players make based on what they see.

Today’s game features lofting but not the extremes you see pulled for effect on the internet. Again, there is always going to be some lofting, these guys are strong, powerful and so it’s going to be featured throughout most events at different times, especially the ones that require multiple angles to crown a champion. It has been this way for a long time but it’s not a requirement to throw it half way down the lane in the air as so many say who want to tear things down.

This event gives the Bowlers a different option but it goes against what they know to be true and so it’s a tough thing to get to.

If the lane hooks from the right for a right hander, you move left. For the most part, it’s always been that way. However, if the lane on the left breaks down and hooks (as has been the case this week) where there is oil to the right... why wouldn’t we move back to the right and play there? Most didn’t the first night, more did last night. It’s a culture shift. It’s not the first one in Bowling, it will also not be the last. Some guys still bowled well from in, they are going to do that, they are the best best Bowlers in the world.

No one is being forced to launch the ball as the videos indicate and opinions drive. There is oil on the lane to the right if the choice is made. These three pictures below show it in great detail.

Squad equity, 9, 8, 7 going into today for the top 24 with “C” squad having the most. C may have the most although, A squad gets B today and so I expect a run from a few folks who are currently down in the standings if they are still working at it. 208.4 average to make the top 24 at this point, 226 leads. Four lefties, 12 players with higher rev rates and 8 medium to lower. Things with this event are good, no matter what you read on the internet.

Good luck to everyone today. It’s been an incredible event so far. Match play is going to be extremely competitive to make the show. Looking forward to it."


[youtube][/youtube]

2017 U.S. Open - Qualifying Round 1&2 from Flamingo Bowl in Liverpool, NY falls into 3 categories: Fresh - Burn and Double Burn oil. This videos is the highlights for each of the category showing how PBA bowlers deal with the many kinds of oil conditions.

+ Fresh starts at: 0:00
+ Burn starsts at: 25:18
+ Double burn starts at: 46:07 with Walter Ray William Jr's Huge loft
+ Double Burn Round 2 starts at: 1:10:53
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by rrb6699 »

I'd say throw a conventional plastic or urethane ball. that's how I'd play them if they are that dry. to me it seems like a protest of lane conditions. like Chad says, "many of them don't know what they're doing playing that deep inside line.", that's why I feel this way about this "technique".
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by spmcgivern »

The better pros will migrate to where the shot needs to be played. Playing on this flat of a pattern usually means getting in deep. Eventually you can't get any deeper and you have to loft.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by TomaHawk »

WRW has shown his distaste for certain types of bowlers in the past. It usually involves some sort of imitation on his behalf. This time, he should have left it alone.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by LookingForALeftyWall »

Bowling has become a game of power and overpowering the lanes because it works in today's environment. And because it works, today's top bowlers are not going to dial back the power. That adjustment is not in their game.

In regards to the US Open/tournament bowling in general, I think bowling on the burn and double burn is silly. Yeah it opens up things for lefties and I am excited that the left is in play this year but watching Michael Haugen play 6th arrow to start a block is ridiculous. Is it somewhat entertaining? Sure. At the end of the day though, there is a lot of frustration by many involved and many watching..

So what to do about what we've seen at the US Open this week? I'd suggest the following:

1. No burn or double burn blocks. I understand the time constraints that re-oiling imposes. The Open should be in a house big enough to accommodate the bowlers into 1 or 2 squads. Perhaps they should cut each block to 7 games. Losing 3 games off qualifying (going from 24 to 21) should not be a killer, statistically speaking.

2. Use of multiple asymmetrical patterns throughout the tournament that lend themselves to scoring from angles throughout a 7-8 game block. The purists will say if it's not 1:1 it's not the US Open. I think that the days of the 1:1 in the US Open are over. The bowlers just overpower it. It's time to concede that fact.

Anyone else have their own alternatives/solutions?
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by TonyPR »

Norm Duke averaged 243 on the double burn, of course he is a master of his release and can adjust his wrist to do any combo of tilt and rotation, is a master of ball motion and can split boards, in other words he is an alien from another planet... what I saw were two lines for right handers: one was throw urethane (or plastic) straight up the 5 (or 3 board) at 100 mph (sometimes with some loft too) and either hit the pocket after the ball rolled out, go brooklyn, or nail it and pins fly everywhere. Option two was stand on the left lane, loft half the lane and have the ball go straight to hook right off the bat and only for a little while and then to roll, again if they nailed it pins fly but lofting so far and having a consistent release and landing spot is really really difficult... and then there was Norm. Like in other conditions it was about ball motion, getting the ball from hook to roll in the correct place and enter the pocket with the best angle... I even saw some guys throw plastic straight to the 1-2 in hopes of leaving makable spares and grind out a 180-190 per game...

I'm not playing the US Open, just a spectator on Xtra Frame so I wouldn't change a thing... great show!

...now if I was a bowling center proprietor and was worried about kids trying to imitate on open bowling... now that's another story...
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by RobMautner »

This was posted by former Champion Robert Smith on Facebook:

"Ohhhhhh, the US Open. Being a past champion of this prestigious event, I am actually laughing at what is going on with lane play. LOFTING THE BALL IS NOT GOOD FOR THE SPORT!!!!! This game was NEVER intended to be played this way. And I made a living by having to play the lanes every day that way at some point.
With the players stronger than ever, and the equipment stronger than ever, the lane which hasn't changed parameters since its inception, is out dated. Oil patterns are ridiculous, outside of a short pattern, every right handed player ends up on the left side of the lane by game 4. And with 24 games on one run of oil, you see what happens.
The only way to fix this is to take away the equipment from the players. The angles that are played now were never even a consideration before 1992. There are exceptions to that with some us opens being played at 5th arrow, but that is only 5th arrow, not 2 ft past the 7th arrow like they are playing now. Not saying take away all the resin, but i dont think the upper tier of our game needs to have such strong equipment.
The game is hard to watch because the is no resemblance of bowling. No one at home can throw a ball 20 ft on the fly, and if they do they will be kicked out of their bowling center. Make it normal again USBC. please."

Personally, I agree with Robert, however in terms of the current Open, a couple of things really need to be said. First, looking at the current standings (after 46 games), Norm Duke is in third place. After watching some of the posted videos, I saw that he was playing in around the fifth arrow with some loft, but not throwing in eight feet in the air. I also notice that Martin Larsen, who is a self-proclaimed rev challenged bowler, made match play.

Looking at the names who made match play, I think that it is apparent that the cream rises to the top, regardless of the lane conditions. What I really don't like is the fact that four of the top six are lefties. I truly doubt that 2/3 of the entire field was comprised of southpaws. That single inequity warrants looking for some alternative lane conditions and/or ball restrictions to even the field.

My biggest problem with how so many of the bowlers are playing the lane is the fact that the league bowlers who make up the majority of the television viewing audience can't relate to what the pros are doing. Looking at most any other sport, the pros do the same things as the amateurs, but they do it so much better. In golf, for instance, the pros tee the ball up, and hit their drivers 300+ yards. The weekend golfer does the same thing, but hits his driver 200 yards. Same game, different skill level. Lofting a bowling ball thirty feet down the lane is a different game, and I for one, can't really relate to it at all.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by Dustin »

If balls are hooking to much can't they put out more oil?
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by spmcgivern »

Dustin wrote:If balls are hooking to much can't they put out more oil?
More oil may make it worse forcing even stronger equipment. Would lead to extreme areas of the lane... flood to sahara.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by pjape »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this didn't happen two years ago when the Open was in Texas. They apparently put enough oil down that even on the double burn, according to what I read from spectators, nobody was much further left than fourth arrow.

Maybe the biggest difference is the lane surface itself. I wonder if the lanes at Flamingo Bowl are very high friction. I looked up the pattern, and it's 33.757 mL of oil, which is a TON. It's also 43 feet. Two years ago, the pattern was also 43 feet, and 33.184 mL of oil. Both times Kegel Ice was used. If it's true that two years ago they didn't break down as much, that makes me think it's the lane surface.

Of course, at this point it's all a moot point, since they're not going to change anything now, and next year they're at Northrock Lanes, which will more than likely be totally different.

As was already stated, I think the problem could be eliminated if next year they would just oil before every round. I'm sure (most of!) the bowlers would rather bowl on the fresh every round.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by LittleTiger »

Belmonte looks to have good alternative solution for lofting too:
[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by krava »

The Chinese spinner ball throwing technique would be good to use in that double burn but who knows how to do it.

I would be the one throwing plastic with a weight block or urethane at 20+ mph up 5 or so if I had to deal with that. Most "normal people" (non pro) don't get very much experience on truly burned lanes because they avoid them. But the pros should have seen them quite a few times.

Now if the lanes are really burned up should the pattern really matter? I mean the flat pattern? there isn't anything left anyway so wouldn't a house shot and a US open shot be close to the same shot if someone was playing between 5-10 since that is completely burned up anyway? I haven't ever experienced a burned up flat pattern yet.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by stevespo »

I was home with a sick kid for 2 days and watched quite a bit of US Open qualifying and match play.

I'm not against the burn and double burn squads, because I do think it's a test of versatility. Some will loft the gutter and others will move right and throw plastic/urethane. A small group seemed to be able to play the track and control the reaction enough to carry (a little). Some guys couldn't do any of these effectively and that's how it goes.

Personally, I don't enjoy watching the gutter lofting - with the exception of a few guys who actually do it well and can execute consistently. I certainly don't want to see it start on the burn and continue for another 10 games. That's just me.

This comes back to the other discussion about the PWBA, and HOW MUCH MORE I enjoy watching them compete - because I can relate to what they're trying to do - in terms of lane play, equipment, adjustments, physical game, shot making. I do enjoy watching the PBA strokers and power tweeners (Blanchard, Lavoie, Loschetter, Weber, Duke, Chapman, Szczerbinski, etc) but beyond that I just can't honestly relate to what many of them are doing. Obviously, I can't do it!

Last week, we decided to practice on the 2017 US Open and it was definitely tough. The gutter was not really in play with the equipment I had with me, the speed bump/OOB made the track tough. My best look was 4th arrow and a little inside that, playing tight to the headpin with a fall back. I think the other angles could have worked for me with different/weaker, lower flaring equipment or a flatter release. Hopefully we'll try again this week it was (obviously) a good challenge. I've been posting huge numbers on THS, and this puts things back in perspective.

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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by TomaHawk »

Bowling on the PBA has always boiled down to either, you can, or you can't. The 2x burn has been the nemesis of many PBA hopefuls. Only the best players should win, the burn keeps it in check.

(Watching some of the players loft the cap in person and succeeding is interesting to say the least).

The main cause for concern should be, does the left side break down in similar increments as the right. Have yet to see a lefty play the 6 or 7th arrow.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by rrb6699 »

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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by guruU2 »

TomaHawk wrote:Bowling on the PBA has always boiled down to either, you can, or you can't. The 2x burn has been the nemesis of many PBA hopefuls. Only the best players should win, the burn keeps it in check.

(Watching some of the players loft the cap in person and succeeding is interesting to say the least).

The main cause for concern should be, does the left side break down in similar increments as the right. Have yet to see a lefty play the 6 or 7th arrow.

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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by rrb6699 »

obviously the left side stays more playable. Page could outlast skilled right handers because the consistency was better. Belmo knew the left side played easier too. he was trying to win any way possible.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by TomaHawk »

People must realize, PBA players are prohibited from publicly expressing their displeasure with the environment they are participating in. Accolades only.

Here we have two highly qualified professional bowlers, WRW and Belmo, mocking the conditions they are encountering. Do not believe for a minute, either one of them thought they could win this tournament utilizing the technique they exhibited in the videos portrayed on this board. Both realized, they were wasting their time, expressing it with their own particular method.

As for competing against some of the best bowlers in the world with a plastic ball? That is extremely unrealistic unless they were all required to use the same.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by rrb6699 »

I agree as far as wrw goes. but, I think belmo should have drilled a ball up to play his backup shot. I know many 220+ average bowlers who play backup shots.

if he could have mustered a way into the finals playing that shot well, we'd all be shouting "He is a master of adjustments".

if they complained about Belmo being on the left side, they should've complained more about all the righties lofting the left gutter & beating it up even more.



TomaHawk wrote:People must realize, PBA players are prohibited from publicly expressing their displeasure with the environment they are participating in. Accolades only.

Here we have two highly qualified professional bowlers, WRW and Belmo, mocking the conditions they are encountering. Do not believe for a minute, either one of them thought they could win this tournament utilizing the technique they exhibited in the videos portrayed on this board. Both realized, they were wasting their time, expressing it with their own particular method.

As for competing against some of the best bowlers in the world with a plastic ball? That is extremely unrealistic unless they were all required to use the same.
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Re: Chad Murphy FB post about lofting in the US Open

Post by preoakes »

The problem could be a simple fix. A different version of bowling in the New England area called Candlepin uses a "Lob Line" all other lane markings are the same, dots at 6 ft, arrows at 15ft. but a solid line at 10 ft (I think) requires you to have the ball touch the lane before the line else you take a zero for the shot. Without getting into the intricacies of that game, it could be a starting point.
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