Ball Reaction Question

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pjape
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Ball Reaction Question

Post by pjape »

I'd like to get some opinions on something I've noticed in my league.

The pattern we use (Kegel Stone Street) does not have much oil outside the eight board. What I've noticed with not only myself, but with many other bowlers in my league, is that if you get it too wide, it hangs. When I say too wide, I mean even just two boards right at the breakpoint (right hander). Many shots that do hit the pocket hit very weak. This issue is not new this year. This is my fifth season in this house, and it's always been like this.

One theory is there is so little oil out there that balls that enter that part of the lane roll too early and die. Another possibility is there are some topography issues going on. The house I spent my first ten years at reacted totally different. I you got it two boards (or more) wide at the breakpoint, you could count on a Brooklyn strike. The fact that this season we have a new lane machine, new oil, and a new pattern, makes me wonder if it's topography.

Is there some kind of test I can do to find out if topography is the issue? If it is, the only solution is to stay away from that part of the lane. Of course, if it is the oil (or lack of it), the solution might be the same.

Ideas?
LookingForALeftyWall
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by LookingForALeftyWall »

My guess is topography. I've bowled on this pattern in one house a few times and have not had any hang issues at all. For me, it has been one of the easiest house shots I've bowled on. I miss out, the ball comes back and hits flush; I miss inside and the ball holds the line for a mixers.

Only advice I have is to stay out of any and all hang spots and make quality shots.
krava
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by krava »

I could be wrong, but if it is topography shouldn't it happen on that lane and not the rest of the place? if it is doing it on lane 28 then go to lane 10 and see if it is doing it there If it is doing it there and try in the middle. I know that if I get 2 boards right of my breakpoint, it won't come back it will be extremely light or leave the head pin etc. I think it also depends on how you play the lanes. If you are a big cranker then it might come soaring back. If my breakpoint is 8 and I hit 6, most likely I got the ball outside of 10 the whole time. I threw the ball on 8 and then all the way up 6 and then trying to hit and that is too much dry.

I still don't know what topography is but I think it has to do with 1 lane, How much use that lane got etc If all the lanes are doing the same thing then it can't be topography.
ads
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by ads »

My house has Stone Street pattern this season for 5-person league .

During fresh everything is fine but break at 4-6. Only near the end of 1st game, it's getting difficult to control the break point. Pushing the ball a bit harder or swing further down lane a foot longer, the ball struggles to return and hit thin. With softer speed or reaching the gutter side earlier, the ball bends leftward and goes brooklyn.

The house has topography issue. The gutter side is very unreliable. However, the pattern has a 1:10 oil ratio from middle to side. I doubt if those corner pins spare shots may carry oil from the middle to the break point area, makes the end of the pattern tighter while the front is burned.
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by PinChurch »

ads wrote:My house has Stone Street pattern this season for 5-person league .

During fresh everything is fine but break at 4-6. Only near the end of 1st game, it's getting difficult to control the break point. Pushing the ball a bit harder or swing further down lane a foot longer, the ball struggles to return and hit thin. With softer speed or reaching the gutter side earlier, the ball bends leftward and goes brooklyn.

The house has topography issue. The gutter side is very unreliable. However, the pattern has a 1:10 oil ratio from middle to side. I doubt if those corner pins spare shots may carry oil from the middle to the break point area, makes the end of the pattern tighter while the front is burned.

With a ratio 1:10 it is no wonder that you can't play outside of 8! A 1:10 is like a snowboard pipe (inverse oil pattern)! And who spares the 10 pin outside 6 board @ 40 feet?


(Stone street has a ratio 10:1 not 1:10)
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by PlainUgly »

At centers in our area, everytime when oil pattern dont match their specs from the sheet, its one of the following reasons:

- a too weak ratio of cleaner in the oil machine, leaving parts of older patterns.
- bad maintenance of the oil machine itself, leaving areas that havent been cleaned at all.
- a change of components like oil or cleaner ( some cleaner are incompatible to some oil )
- a drastic change of climate conditions, like high humidity, that forces the oil to run wide instead of
drying out.

Its on all lanes, if not, topography sounds reasonable to me too.

In my opinion, most reasonable is bad maintenance or a too weak ratio of cleaner.

Perhaps u can ask the lane technician to adjust the ratio of cleaner to a stronger version just for an evening ?
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by krava »

How is your league going. You had a good day one day the other week but what about now? I been out going on my 3rd week this week now :(
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by pjape »

krava wrote:How is your league going. You had a good day one day the other week but what about now? I been out going on my 3rd week this week now :(
Well, not so good. Once again on Thursday, I started out throwing the ball pretty well. When I'm bowling well, I'm very accurate, and I spliced my target every shot of warm-ups. Straight down 10 was just rolling just a bit too late, so I moved about a board right. I was hitting the pocket, but not carrying. I ended up clean at 199. The second game was about the same. I split and opened in the first frame, but stayed clean and ended up with 203. Game three was a disaster. I pulled out a stronger ball for my fill ball in the tenth of game two, moved inside and struck. But, it wasn't long into game three and they were breaking down incredibly fast, and I couldn't keep up. I had three shots in a row on the left lane where I split and opened. I went back to my game one ball and stayed clean but didn't strike much, and threw a 150-something game.

Even though there is supposedly a lot of oil in the middle of this pattern, it breaks down very quickly. I heard a guy on the other team muttering "any mistake I make is always a split." He's older than me and has been one of my counties best bowlers for many years.

What is baffling to me is why they broke down so quickly. There is one guy on my team who has a fairly high rev rate. He throws it very straight and doesn't cover a lot of boards, but has a ton of ball speed. Most of his shots on the monitor are over 18, sometimes 19 mph. He also stays around 8 to 10 the whole night. The rest of us all have fairly low rev rates (one guy is in his mid-seventies and the other is past 80). The other team only had three bowlers present, and one of them is left handed. The other two don't really rev the ball either. They both have a fair amount of rotation, one covering more boards because he throws it slower.

Those who score well are those who either throw it hard or have a very high rev rate. Those who have both shoot the lights out. We had an 820-something series with a 300. This is a young kid with a high rev rate and high ball speed.

The thing that bites me the most, and is totally my fault, is when I start struggling with ball reaction, my physical game goes to hell. I tighten up, my swings gets muscled, my timing gets late, my ball speed goes down, and that just makes everything worse.

Unfortunately, there's really no way to practice in this scenario. Even if I get lucky and can practice on fresh oil, just me on the pair is obviously nothing like ten on a pair. Plus, the way the game is today, WHO is on your pair makes all the difference. Even if you look ahead to see who you're bowling, will it be the five core bowlers or one or more subs? You never know until you arrive.

Sometimes I think I just need to accept the fact that if you bowl on a house shot league and are a senior bowler, you're not going to score, and will fight ball reaction every week.
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Re: Ball Reaction Question

Post by stevespo »

pjape wrote: Even though there is supposedly a lot of oil in the middle of this pattern, it breaks down very quickly. I heard a guy on the other team muttering "any mistake I make is always a split." He's older than me and has been one of my counties best bowlers for many years.
My Monday league uses Kegel Stone Street on a lower friction Pro-Anvilane surface. I have generally been throwing my Primo (pearl) up the track and find that the pattern holds up fairly well, but it does depend on who you are bowling with and what they are using. I'm using a Primo pearl with a low flaring layout and factory finish (towards lane shine).
pjape wrote:Those who score well are those who either throw it hard or have a very high rev rate. Those who have both shoot the lights out. We had an 820-something series with a 300. This is a young kid with a high rev rate and high ball speed.
Ball speed absolutely helps with hold and carry. I have to start out fairly soft (15.5 on the monitor) and end up closer to 16.25 before the night is out. Staying soft (for me) is my key to a good read on this pattern with the Primo. I've thrown a sanded Paradox and Guru Master with great results, but they chew up the oil, force frequent moves and the overall results don't seem any better.
pjape wrote: Unfortunately, there's really no way to practice in this scenario. Even if I get lucky and can practice on fresh oil, just me on the pair is obviously nothing like ten on a pair. Plus, the way the game is today, WHO is on your pair makes all the difference. Even if you look ahead to see who you're bowling, will it be the five core bowlers or one or more subs? You never know until you arrive.
Last week I was on a pair with topography issues and was very frustrated. This weekend, I was able to practice on the same pair with the same pattern and realized there was a dead spot downlane that I could only work around with very different angles and equipment. I started deeper with a Paradox Trilogy and it looked great. For me, the track was off limits on that pair. Terrible over/under reaction.

Last night I went back to my Primo on a different pair, going fairly straight up 8/9 and gradually shaping it slightly and had a fantastic look with small moves left and a little belly.

Why not try and get a practice group together? Pass out fliers and arrange with the center to reserve a freshly oiled pair for Saturday or Sunday morning? A few bowlers can break down a pair and simulate league conditions. If you can get a few teammates to show up, even better. We've got a core group of 6-8 bowlers who show up every week and it's fun and educational.

I know there are specific challenges for senior bowlers with these walled house shots. Without the speed to play towards the gutter, or the hand to move in - your options are limited to the track which can really get beaten up. What are you using for equipment, layouts, surface? Perhaps there is a tweak that will help with ball reaction and improve carry.

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