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 Post subject: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:43 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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This is a concept I've wanted to try for a long time and I've found a proprietor to help me out and make it happen.

I've made a simple website for it, which is still work in progress.
Im curious to see what you think about it.
Most of the details are on the rules PDF.

http://www.cdclbowling.com/

Its essentially a no obligation session open to youth and adults bowled on patterns between 2:1 and 5:1.
4 games for $15 and segment of that money is put into jackpots for 300, Front 7 and Leader.
Details on the jackpots are on the site's rules.

Would this be a session you would consider?
Im curious to see the results from a more national, even global perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:23 am Post Number: #2 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
This is a concept I've wanted to try for a long time and I've found a proprietor to help me out and make it happen.

I've made a simple website for it, which is still work in progress.
Im curious to see what you think about it.
Most of the details are on the rules PDF.

http://www.cdclbowling.com/

Its essentially a no obligation session open to youth and adults bowled on patterns between 2:1 and 5:1.
4 games for $15 and segment of that money is put into jackpots for 300, Front 7 and Leader.
Details on the jackpots are on the site's rules.

Would this be a session you would consider?


In a vacuum, I like the format just fine, and I would welcome a fall sport shot league in this area (even if this is really a cheap sweeper series). In real life, I'm not sure. Personally, id treat each as an individual tournament, not the whole thing as a league. No obligation and no long-term points system (that I saw) breaks the concept of a league to me.

If it's a weekend event, I'd try it for a couple weeks and evaluate the turnout, payout, other tournaments in the area, etc. If it's a weeknight event, it would depend what night, as I wouldn't drop either of my current leagues for it.

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:49 am Post Number: #3 Post
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Your post tells me you didnt read the rules PDF.
Everything is laid out there.
IMO its neither a league or tournament.
I wanted to call it a league since its going to be weekly and long term.
A tournament sometimes is only once a year and its not priced like a tournament.
The roll over jackpots tie the weeks together.
No dead teams 1/2 way thru halves, each week is a fresh start and its a stage adults and youth can share.
Its a big deal for the growth of the sport IMO. Youth and Adult typically compete separately at the local level.

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:36 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
Your post tells me you didnt read the rules PDF.
Everything is laid out there.
IMO its neither a league or tournament.
I wanted to call it a league since its going to be weekly and long term.
A tournament sometimes is only once a year and its not priced like a tournament.
The roll over jackpots tie the weeks together.
No dead teams 1/2 way thru halves, each week is a fresh start and its a stage adults and youth can share.
Its a big deal for the growth of the sport IMO. Youth and Adult typically compete separately at the local level.


I did read the rules, thank you. IIRC, your rules even state that we can think of this league as a weekly tournament. Your post tells me you didn't read my post with any intention other than looking for something to argue with me about.

I said - "Personally, I'd treat each week as an individual tournament." I don't really care if YOU call it a league, a sweeper, a tournament, or a fluglehopper. I, your participant, would not treat it as a league in my mind. I'd treat it as a sweeper series that I can choose to bowl or not bowl weekly, depending on what I'd have to give up to bowl it and what I would gain from performing well.

The manner in which i view and value an event is not your decision.

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:52 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
This is a concept I've wanted to try for a long time and I've found a proprietor to help me out and make it happen.

I've made a simple website for it, which is still work in progress.
Im curious to see what you think about it.
Most of the details are on the rules PDF.

http://www.cdclbowling.com/

Its essentially a no obligation session open to youth and adults bowled on patterns between 2:1 and 5:1.
4 games for $15 and segment of that money is put into jackpots for 300, Front 7 and Leader.
Details on the jackpots are on the site's rules.

Would this be a session you would consider?
Im curious to see the results from a more national, even global perspective.


We have something kind of similar in Dublin, though it's a monthly event. Points are taken and a winner is declared at the end of the year long season, but each event is treated as a tournament as well, with awards for 300 etc. It seems to work well, although Dublin is too far for me to travel. (250km). My PSO (who runs the scheme) is also about 200km away :(


I can't decide if the sack race is a Van Halen style trick to ensure people read the rules, or legitimate!

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:43 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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flibblesh wrote:
We have something kind of similar in Dublin, though it's a monthly event. Points are taken and a winner is declared at the end of the year long season, but each event is treated as a tournament as well, with awards for 300 etc. It seems to work well, although Dublin is too far for me to travel. (250km). My PSO (who runs the scheme) is also about 200km away :(


Its good to know this type of idea has had success. The great thing about the center where this is held, is its in the middle of a tri-city area, so I should be able to pull in a good amount of interest. Im not expecting something like this to set the area on fire to start. However, if the jackpots get big enough I would expect some people to start skipping league from time to time. $15 for a shot at $200-$300 in a single jackpot is going to be hard to ignore.
I could see the 300 jackpot reaching more than that.

flibblesh wrote:
I can't decide if the sack race is a Van Halen style trick to ensure people read the rules, or legitimate!


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Mission accomplished.

"If I strike, I win, if I get 9 we have the sack race."

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:27 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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The 3 things that I like about it that would attract me to your league:

1. Sport/Challenge shot (with a caveat)
2. Weekly attendance is not required
3. $15 to bowl 4 games on something tougher than a THS is a bargain

I currently bowl in a 4 game mystery doubles pot bowling "league" that is on USBC White #2 that does not require weekly attendance. It's scratch and although it's "doubles" it has plenty of singles side action (sweeper, eliminator, high game, strike jackpot, no-tap jackpot (must make the spare though), and last game 10th frame survivor). I love it. I get to bowl on something that is a bit harder than a THS and get to focus on shot repetition and keeping my mechanics in check.

Now, it's not for everyone. I had a conversation with a guy who ranted that participation would be higher if they used the regular house shot instead of White #2. I told him that conversely, I would not be participating if it was on the regular house shot. I told him I have no interest in a carry contest. He shrugged me off - I guess high scores matter to him.

In regards to the patterns in your league, I would probably be more stoked on shots in the 3:1-5:1 range. I'm down for a challenge on a weekly basis but bowling on a 2:1 pattern on a Monday night is not my ideal way to start the week.


Last edited by LookingForALeftyWall on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:47 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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What are the "Bowling Pattern Cards"? got picture of one?

I might would bowl in it, but I think calling it a "League" could be seen as misleading.

It's more a optional weekly tournament/sweeper, A roll over jackpot doesn't quite tie it together enough to call it a league.

We had something similar it was a King of the hill league, it had a weekly payout and you didn't have to come every week, but if you did (if you were king) you defended your title, there was some end of the league prize(I don't remember the particulars, it's been awhile)

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:58 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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LookingForALeftyWall wrote:
The 2 things that I like about it that would attract me to your league:

1. Sport/Challenge shot (with a caveat)
2. Weekly attendance is not required
3. $15 to bowl 4 games on something tougher than a THS is a bargain

I currently bowl in a 4 game mystery doubles pot bowling "league" that is on USBC White #2 that does not require weekly attendance. It's scratch and although it's "doubles" it has plenty of singles side action (sweeper, eliminator, high game, strike jackpot, no-tap jackpot (must make the spare though), and last game 10th frame survivor). I love it. I get to bowl on something that is a bit harder than a THS and get to focus on shot repetition and keeping my mechanics in check.

Now, it's not for everyone. I had a conversation with a guy who ranted that participation would be higher if they used the regular house shot instead of White #2. I told him that conversely, I would not be participating if it was on the regular house shot. I told him I have no interest in a carry contest. He shrugged me off - I guess high scores matter to him.

In regards to the patterns in your league, I would probably be more stoked on shots in the 3:1-5:1 range. I'm down for a challenge on a weekly basis but bowling on a 2:1 pattern on a Monday night is not my ideal way to start the week.


Thank you for your feedback.
I forgot to put in that while the range is 2:1 to 5:1, the majority of the patterns are 3:1 to 5:1.
The ones in the 2:1 range are mostly the short patterns and that goofy 2012 Shark light volume pattern.
That was written on the facebook page. I should probably put it in the rules.

bowl1820 wrote:
What are the "Bowling Pattern Cards"? got picture of one?

I might would bowl in it, but I think calling it a "League" could be seen as misleading.

It's more a optional weekly tournament/sweeper, A roll over jackpot doesn't quite tie it together enough to call it a league.

We had something similar it was a King of the hill league, it had a weekly payout and you didn't have to come every week, but if you did (if you were king) you defended your title, there was some end of the league prize(I don't remember the particulars, it's been awhile)


It *may* become an attendance required league in the future if I get enough interest.
However, I like the loose format, and I think that will get more participation than lose.

The playing cards are blank faced Bicycle poker/pinochle cards. I will write by hand the pattern name, pattern distance, outside track ratio and total volume on them, then offer for selection face down.

I will use these cards for starting lane to start the "Leader's Pot" opportunity as well.

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Thank you for the questions and ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:14 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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I like the idea, and I would bowl in it periodically, perhaps frequently - if it didn't cause conflicts with my team (or family) commitments. The tougher condition, flexibility and low cost are a big draw for me as well.

We had a weekly sweeper series going last spring, and people liked the flexibility. It was hard for some to give up the notion of a league (with playoffs, matchplay, etc) so we did track points. 3 for winner, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. The top 4 at the end had a stepladder final to add some drama and crown a winner. I'm not suggesting this is necessary, but it was popular. Bragging rights, I guess.

We also paid out the top 3 positions each week, so it was not a "winner take all". The 2nd and 3rd were pretty modest, just enough to get their money back and buy a beer or two. A small motivator perhaps, but it seemed important to enough guys to have a chance to cash.

The big prizes and the larger jackpots do motivate some bowlers, so it's always a balancing act between participation and distribution. I'm sure you can tweak it and adjust based on feedback. I hope it works, and I am (almost) close enough to make a trip to check it out.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:40 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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stevespo wrote:
I like the idea, and I would bowl in it periodically, perhaps frequently - if it didn't cause conflicts with my team (or family) commitments. The tougher condition, flexibility and low cost are a big draw for me as well.

We had a weekly sweeper series going last spring, and people liked the flexibility. It was hard for some to give up the notion of a league (with playoffs, matchplay, etc) so we did track points. 3 for winner, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. The top 4 at the end had a stepladder final to add some drama and crown a winner. I'm not suggesting this is necessary, but it was popular. Bragging rights, I guess.

We also paid out the top 3 positions each week, so it was not a "winner take all". The 2nd and 3rd were pretty modest, just enough to get their money back and buy a beer or two. A small motivator perhaps, but it seemed important to enough guys to have a chance to cash.

The big prizes and the larger jackpots do motivate some bowlers, so it's always a balancing act between participation and distribution. I'm sure you can tweak it and adjust based on feedback. I hope it works, and I am (almost) close enough to make a trip to check it out.

Steve


Thanks Steve, im sure there will be some adjustments along the way to tailor it to the participants.
Im open to anything that will make this more enjoyable.
Keep an eye on the facebook group and twitter, I'll be posting the roll over amounts and I *may* go live on facebook for the Leader's Jackpot attempt each night if I can pull it off.
If the pots get big enough over time maybe I can motivate you to make the drive.
Many holidays are Mondays. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:36 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Yes, that sounds like fun. I can plan a trip to visit my folks over a long weekend and bowl on my way back home Monday. I'll try and make it happen... Maybe even get my Dad to join us...

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:28 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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This is what we're bowling on the first week:


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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:09 am Post Number: #14 Post
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Eric, this league sounds like a great idea, I wish you great success with the project. Good pattern to start, medium length and not so difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:47 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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Very nice idea.

Are you looking to achieve a certain level of participation?


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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:15 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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TomaHawk wrote:
Very nice idea.
Are you looking to achieve a certain level of participation?


Thank you. I wanted to offer something that would appeal to the growing bowler. someone thats looking to get better without wanting to quit after a few weeks. Offer patterns "in the middle" where you can find the shot easier than sport, see transition better and not get lost easily. Im also looking to attract the tournament bowler to use this as practice and have some incentive to bowl with the progressive pots. No commitment makes it more enticing to try.

Im looking to build this up to regular participation around 20-25 people per night.
Im expecting slow growth, but im going to promote on social media to keep the exposure up.

TonyPR wrote:
Eric, this league sounds like a great idea, I wish you great success with the project. Good pattern to start, medium length and not so difficult.


Great to see you back Tony!
This is the type of pattern im going to offer, some a little easier, some a little harder.
A few are difficult IMO, but still not US Open impossible.
Also, I want to keep the volume lower, so newer bowlers can see the ball hook, the pattern will be easier for the lane man to get off the lane and the mechanic wont be cleaning the pits with a mop after the night is over.

If you want to see the patterns I will be offering you can visit: http://www.cdclbowling.com/patterns/deck/

It was very hard to find patterns with some forgiveness with outside track ratios around 3-4, middle track near 1.5 for medium patterns, higher for longer patterns, medium-low volume and 50ul. I reviewed 100s to get it to 20.

Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CDCLBowling/

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 Post subject: Re: So... I'm starting a league...
 Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:50 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
What are the "Bowling Pattern Cards"? got picture of one?


Pattern deck attached.


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