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 Post subject: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:53 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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"I don't like the fact that it gives one group of bowlers a HUGE advantage. This is not to say that a two-hander will always win, but given two bowlers with equal talents and abilities, the two-hander will prevail a majority of the time. "

The above quote was posted in another forum, what do we think? Does 2 handed bowling give a advantage over all others styles and allow you to dominate over everyone else?

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:24 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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If you don't feel comfortable and flowing playing two handed and don't work hard at it then no...

What does give you an advantage, no matter if it's a one handed or two handed approach, is versatility and understanding the lane and your equipment. Being able to play any line on the lane and being able to control speed, loft, rev rate, axis rotation is what will give you and advantage. Understanding ball motion and having the trust in yourself to adjust your line or change balls after you have 9 strikes in a row because you can diferentiate if it was you, the ball or the lane is what gives you an advantage...

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:29 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
"I don't like the fact that it gives one group of bowlers a HUGE advantage. This is not to say that a two-hander will always win, but given two bowlers with equal talents and abilities, the two-hander will prevail a majority of the time. "

The above quote was posted in another forum, what do we think? Does 2 handed bowling give a advantage over all others styles and allow you to dominate over everyone else?

I think anybody who thinks 2 handed gives them an advantage, should go 2 handed.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:40 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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In an absolute vacuum, yes, I think it's an advantage. Having the extra power certainly helps, but I think the advantage lies more with the built-in clean release.

Of course, bowling is never ever ever a sport of all things being equal.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:44 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
I think anybody who thinks 2 handed gives them an advantage, should go 2 handed.

Totally agree with elgavachon.


We have several two handers in a league here, they have not dominated this far.
Though many can bowl two handed, quality, repetitive deliveries are still very important.

I wonder what people thought when Mark Roth came along?

Many are envious of power per se. Some look for excuses and blame others.

We should all respect talent and ability and just try to improve.

I do think it is great for the sport.

Cheerio!

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 Post subject: my 2¢...
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:38 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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The main difference I see between two-handers and most traditional styles is the strong left shoulder position prior to release (for a righty two-hander).
Release mechanics and follow through are more or less the same between a skilled traditional style and skilled two-hander. I get it: Belmonte has a 600+RPM rev-rate, but so does (did) Robert Smith.

RPM and MPH create more energy to knock down pins, but there is a point of diminishing returns, and controlling the ball motion can become needlessly difficult for rev-dom two-handers.

As a driller, I see the two-handed style, and the new USBC equipment rules for that style, as a good opportunity to sell short-pin/high-top bowling balls that were previously not accepted by proshops and savvy customers.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:39 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Now here is a definite slam dunk advantage ...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13269&p=102804#p102804

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:54 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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Yep, no thumb bowlers don't have to worry about humidity, or sweat, or the time of the day they are bowling as their thumb is irrelevant in the release. No thumb = no grab!

For all the power and rev rate 2-handers can generate, the majority of bowlers I see in person can't spare to save themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:35 am Post Number: #9 Post
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deanchamp wrote:
Yep, no thumb bowlers don't have to worry about humidity, or sweat, or the time of the day they are bowling as their thumb is irrelevant in the release. No thumb = no grab!

For all the power and rev rate 2-handers can generate, the majority of bowlers I see in person can't spare to save themselves.


Probably why Oscu reverts to using the thumb for spares.

If Belmo, can spare, it proves it can be done.
I think it's a matter of diligence and desire (work and want).

There were a few 2 handers in an "Elite" league here, I will make it a point to observe what they do.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:28 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
"I don't like the fact that it gives one group of bowlers a HUGE advantage. This is not to say that a two-hander will always win, but given two bowlers with equal talents and abilities, the two-hander will prevail a majority of the time. "

The above quote was posted in another forum, what do we think? Does 2 handed bowling give a advantage over all others styles and allow you to dominate over everyone else?


Okay, this is the first time I've checked in for a few days. I was the one who posted the quote on another site that bowl1820 has posted.

Previously to that comment, I said, "In my opinion, it should have been banned by the PBA. Since it wasn't, if you have a child or a grandchild who wants to learn how to bowl, he/she had better learn two-handed if being competitive is a consideration."

Obviously, I'm not talking about current one handed bowlers who switch to two handed having an advantage. Clearly it's so different that to really master it will take as long as it takes to master one handed bowling. My point was that I believe that the revs that two handers who have mastered the technique can generate gives them an unfair advantage, AND ALLOWING IT AT A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL COMPROMISES THE INTEGRITY OF THE SPORT. With this having been said, please let me add that I am echoing the sentiments of Pete Weber (during an interview that I did with him during this year's masters), who also said that, if he were a child today, just starting out, he would definitely learn to bowl two handed.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:55 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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i'm very curious ,as these 2 handed bowlers get older ( and they will), what are they going to do then. sooner or later, they'll have to go to normal 1 handed bowling in my opinion.......


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:10 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Quote:
Rob wrote
Obviously, I'm not talking about current one handed bowlers who switch to two handed having an advantage. Clearly it's so different that to really master it will take as long as it takes to master one handed bowling. My point was that I believe that the revs that two handers who have mastered the technique can generate gives them an unfair advantage, AND ALLOWING IT AT A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL COMPROMISES THE INTEGRITY OF THE SPORT. With this having been said, please let me add that I am echoing the sentiments of Pete Weber (during an interview that I did with him during this year's masters), who also said that, if he were a child today, just starting out, he would definitely learn to bowl two handed.


Look at what Pete said in your closing sentence. That asserting is very telling. He would learn to bowl that way!
I think it was Bob Summerville who posed the question "How do we know that the way we teach bowling is the best way?".
One of the oldest sayings in the sport is that bowling is a game of how many not how!
Most people are never going to compete at an Elite level in any sport!
If any method gives an athlete and advantage, that method will be copied and become a new standard.
Babe Ruth made the home run a new standard.
Football made the forward pass a new standard.
The dunk in basketball became a new standard.

Many children start out rolling the ball two handed.

As for aging bowler's, age comes to all athletes who do not die young.
Pitchers lose velocity and the good ones fine a way to succeed.

A measure of elite performance is separating yourself from the masses.

A recipe for longevity in any sport is fitness: mobility, flexibility, strength, endurance.
The two handed bowler will have to be a better athlete. It can be a distinct delineation that earns professional bowling the respect it has been lacking. Look, THS and equipment perpetuate the illusion bowling is not a sport.

Anything that encourages people to seek and maintain fitness, can improve their entire life.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:23 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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RobMautner wrote:

Okay, this is the first time I've checked in for a few days. I was the one who posted the quote on another site that bowl1820 has posted.

Previously to that comment, I said, "In my opinion, it should have been banned by the PBA. Since it wasn't, if you have a child or a grandchild who wants to learn how to bowl, he/she had better learn two-handed if being competitive is a consideration."

Obviously, I'm not talking about current one handed bowlers who switch to two handed having an advantage. Clearly it's so different that to really master it will take as long as it takes to master one handed bowling. My point was that I believe that the revs that two handers who have mastered the technique can generate gives them an unfair advantage, AND ALLOWING IT AT A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL COMPROMISES THE INTEGRITY OF THE SPORT. With this having been said, please let me add that I am echoing the sentiments of Pete Weber (during an interview that I did with him during this year's masters), who also said that, if he were a child today, just starting out, he would definitely learn to bowl two handed.

How could the USBC have not allowed it? Would they have come up with a rule saying that you had to take your off hand off the ball by the time it passed your body in the backswing? most 2 handers release with one hand. Why put a limit on how long you can hold the weight of the ball in your off bowling hand? Haven't all the coaches you ever listened to try to tell you to relax your bowling arm and keep the weight on your non-bowling hand? The no thumb might be what is not being looked at. That takes a bit of flexibility to balance the ball on the wrist. Were they supposed to outlaw that stye also (just because one bowler has the flexibility and it gives a possible advantage over another bowler who is not as flexible)? Outlaw thumb-tip layouts when Tom Smallwood used one/etc?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:54 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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If anyone wants to vote
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8093&p=102820#p102820

Voting is a good habit ...

Cheerio!

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:38 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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I really don't think that a vote is in order... at least not for me. I have my opinion, and that's what it is; just an opinion.

To clarify, bowling has always encompassed four abilities: Accuracy, consistency, power, and the ability to adjust to changing lane conditions. Two handed bowling puts all the eggs into the power basket; at least for league level bowlers. Unfortunately, while the two handed league players are focussing on the power, everyone else have to focus on adjusting as the two handers are ripping up the lanes and making them, for all intents and purposes, unplayable for everyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:46 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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turbotwister wrote:
i'm very curious ,as these 2 handed bowlers get older ( and they will), what are they going to do then. sooner or later, they'll have to go to normal 1 handed bowling in my opinion.......


Jason and Osku have bowled this way competitively for over 20 years. In that same time span, I have seen many one handed bowlers who use the cupped wrist method to deliver the ball suffer wrist and elbow injuries.

Mo once said "if God intended for humans to cup the wrist to deliver the ball, he would have put an ankle bone in the wrist".

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:32 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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Let me be clear. Everyone has a right to their opinion, there is no need to defend that one's opinion.

As for voting, most people choose to eschew voting, in the setting of a social forum, the consequences are not life and death.

That poll is not a binary poll. It proves nothing. There are various polls set up on the forum.
It's a fun thing so to speak. No should be crowned or castigated for voicing their opinion.
We also use the polls to rate books, videos, websites.
Aside from fun, it's meant to stimulate thought, grow the sport, support the authors etc.


The fact that people agree with anyone or do not, does not in and of itself make something right or wrong.

Cheerio!

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:49 pm Post Number: #18 Post
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Jason Belmonte is an amazing ambassador for the sport of bowling. But honestly, I personally consider the two-handed technique to be a corruption of the traditional form. Aesthetics matter, especially for the pros. The hunched gallop to the line and hurling of the ball is...well, kind of ugly and almost clumsy looking.

I'm a driller and an unapologetic old-school traditional player.
Here's where I contradict myself: two-handed bowling is flat-out more efficient than traditional styles. Furthermore, the balls are quicker, easier, and cheaper to drill. Fit is not as much of a concern, thumb injuries and timing issues are a thing of the past and amateurs can more easily access all of the performance they've paid for in a new reactive ball. It's fun to watch the ball hook gutter to gutter.

I think it's generally true that any bowler, two-handed or otherwise, that cranks a high flaring ball from deep inside is going to wreck the shim for the strokers. The "Belmo effect" is probably more myth than fact. I wish someone would do a formal study comparing the effect on the pattern: EJ vs Belmo.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:05 pm Post Number: #19 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
Unfortunately, while the two handed league players are focussing on the power, everyone else have to focus on adjusting as the two handers are ripping up the lanes and making them, for all intents and purposes, unplayable for everyone else.


Now that right there is nothing new.

Before two handed bowlers ever appeared, there were the high rev "Crankers". The same things were said then (and still are) about them, that they ripping up the lanes for everyone else. So that's not something the two handed style brought about.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Handed bowling: Is it the Ultimate Advantage?
 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:45 pm Post Number: #20 Post
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Unless they're using urethane. Then everybody is worried about pushing oil down the lane.

There's always something to complain about. :lol:


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