IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

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krava
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IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by krava »

Fig #1 http://picpaste.com/pics/001-ipedDnpy.1502245085.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #2 http://picpaste.com/pics/002-Lxq4F1Rt.1502245136.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #3 http://picpaste.com/pics/003-cH0e1mXQ.1502245166.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #4 http://picpaste.com/pics/004-ywmPLZRJ.1502245208.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #5 http://picpaste.com/pics/005-59N7tkFv.1502245249.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #6 http://picpaste.com/006-7m6Ji8O7.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #7 http://picpaste.com/pics/007-XHoyFUBM.1502245329.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #8 http://picpaste.com/pics/008-K6fQkj2X.1502245404.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #9 http://picpaste.com/pics/009-kMoBeyAw.1502245378.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will reference Fig's as needed.

First of all the IRTC in Arlington has been around they said since 2009. I thought they just moved into the place. They are located on the same street as Six Flags about a block away from one of the rollercoasters. Right next door is a bowling hall of fame place (which will explain later). When you get into the place, the proshop is located on the left side as you walk in. It is to the right infront of the front desk. Then just beyond the desk is their facility. They have about 14 lanes or so. 2 Pairs of lanes lets them do CATS.

The CATS program is done on a pair of lanes. The left lane has a 44 foot pattern I believe on it and on the right lane is a 34 foot pattern (one of them was called London). What you do is practice on the lanes and when you are ready, you throw 10 shots on the lane. They setup 3 pins 1 2 3 pins for you to shoot at. When you are done with the left lane, you move to the right lane and practice if you need to and then throw 10 shots when you want to. The next step is they go back and print out the results. The test cost $79. When they come back, they show you Fig #1 . When I did it I talked to RON which is one of the guys in the USBC videos.

The main things that CATS measures are the following:

#1 Position of the Ball at different points on the lane
#2 Ball Speed (off the hand, breakpoint and at the pins)
#3 RPM estimate (it is pretty accurate but not completely accurate but it doesn't matter since each ball is measured the same way so everything is uniform)
#4 Launch angle

If you reference Fig #1, You will see Skill Level and then all of the 4 measurements. They did not explain to me the different skill levels. I know that 210 average is a Tier 2 and a 220 average is Teir 1 I don't know what all the other Teirs are.

If you look at the bottom of the chart you can see which each of the measurements are an indicator of. For instance, if you can't control your ball speed, then you have problems with your timing. You can read the rest at the bottom of it.

They did a very good job of explaining the page and they say they want to focus on the "miss shots". like what caused the miss or why the ball went away from where it is suppose to go. They said they created this for you to fail on.

To the right you will see they explained "launch angle". He did this because this is where I "suck" at. I was never explained launch angle and how important it is. To me there is 3 launch angles, Straight, To the right and then to the left. That is completely wrong. He explained that if you are just 1 degree off in your launch angle, you can be 3 boards off here and then 12 boards off here etc. I don't know the exact things he said but it was bad.

I have explained how this works and now will concentrate and give you an example of my results to help explain. First of all I went in there with a pretty good idea of how accurate I think I am. In my mind I am 1 board off of target to the left and up to 2 boards right of target, my RPM range is within 50, I have ball speed control within .50mph and didn't even consider a launch angle thing.

I will discuss the launch angle thing first before going into more detail. First of all how can you have any consistant launch angle at all if all you care about is hitting 1 target and looking at 1 target. You can hit that 1 target in a large number of angles. So my assumption now is that I need to focus on atleast 2 points. I will focus on the target I am trying to hit at the arrows and then where I want that ball to be before it starts to turn and hook into the pocket (bascially start at first range finder). I will try to throw my ball down that "line". That line creates a certain angle. I will be trying to hit an angle now instead of just a point. Now on to results. Ron asked me which lane I felt more comfortable on and I told him The Long Pattern.

See Fig 3. According to the chart you need to reference where it says 11ft which is at the arrows. It shows you the average, Min and Max. What I believe you do is take the Max subtract the Min and that is your range of boards the ball hit at the arrows. I don't know how they got the info they got, but I take 10.8 -8.9 I get 1.9 not 2.4 I don't see how they came up with that and I think that is wrong. I believe you can see the other info and make out how they got that. Now they didn't explain this. I beleive if your average fits in a Teir, lets say Teir 2, then you need to try to have every category teir 2 or under.

See Fig #4. The first chart shows you the ball path from the point it hits the lane to the pins. You can see that 1 error shot in there somewhere. I personally believe their should be 11 shots and 1 error shot should be thrown out. You can have 9 completely exact shots and then that 1 off shot that throws everything off. When I was bowling I was about as nervous as I am when I need 1 strike to hit 300. The only thing I was thinking was don't mess up and throw the ball wrong and throw everything off. I was negative the entire time doing this hoping I didn't mess up and miss. I was not comfortable at all and normal.

The 2nd chart on Fig #4 shows you the ball speed. What this does is show you when you speed up or slow your ball down and tries to explain why. Maybe you were thinking that the breakpoint was changing and you wanted to speed it up a bit. I personally felt I was slinging my ball and not rolling it and I tried to slow it down just a tad bit a time or two.

See Fig #5 That shows you the exact data per shot for each of the 10 shots. Now ignore pinfall because they didn't count that. On my personal RPM data, I have a big gap in RPM because one or more times, I broke my wrist and didn't throw the ball correctly and I felt it when I did it. They also say it has to do with ball fit if the rpms aren't the same. I had to put 2 pieces of tape in the ball before I started and it felt a little big. Also I took 3 balls to the proshop and he said all 3 had different pitches in them. He said that was because of an alignment issue on the press most likely. I pesonally used a Scandal ball on the long pattern and a Storm match solid on the short pattern.


Now the next lane was a Short Oil pattern 34 feet. I have personally never bowled on a short oil pattern. This sort of acted like a very dry lane. When I started I had 2 possible shots. I could shoot down the 4 board or I could shoot between 2nd and 3rd and out to the gutter or close and then back in. I know for a fact I suck at throwing it out and in (absolutely no understanding of launch angle at the time). I decided that my best option was to throw straight down the 5 board. On the long pattern I stood at 27 and threw down 10. On the short pattern, I stood on 22 and threw down 5. I felt extremely cramped and very leery of the gutter. I kept probably walking to the left trying to get away from the gutter. It was bascially the same way as nationals, trying not to throw the ball to the right too far.

Fig 7-9 shows the results from the Short oil pattern. I was all over the place. The breakpoint is absolutely huge. The only good thing is that I didn't get the ball in the gutter. If you take out that error shot #5 shot. I still had accuracy at the arrows as +-1 board approx. The launch angle is really bad and that is what caused all the problems. I tried pulling myself to the left and angled the ball a different way. WHen I didn't pull myself back to the left I threw it a different angle. My RPM's are down because I didn't put anything on the ball. The ball was already overhooking as it was even throwing down 5. I was targeting 4 or 5 not really focusing on one. I need to focus on one or the other. I was looking at 5 but thinking 4 in my head.


Any other questions about this test I can try to answer.

I forgot to talk about the Bowling Museum they have there. I was given a free ticket to check it out and didn't want to look bad by turning it down so I took it thinking I would be in there 15 minutes and get out. I walk in there and the first thing I saw was something about Egypt and how just a few decades ago, they uncovered a sort of bowling alley. They think that the game was 1 person had a larger ball and another person had a smaller ball. The object of the game was to get the smaller ball into the slot without the bigger ball knocking it out. They showed pictures of it and also had a sarcophagus. Then it went on getting more and more current. I went through everything and hit every button and didn't know alot of what I saw. They had artifacts from way back when related to bowling etc. The only complaint I have is they had a theater in there with some kind of program on it and I couldn't hear or understand what they were saying and just skipped that part. I ended up staying in there for over an hour I know looking and reading about this and that. I would say check it out if you go over there to do anything.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by bowl1820 »

krava wrote: Fig #3 http://picpaste.com/pics/003-cH0e1mXQ.1502245166.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know how they got the info they got, but I take 10.8 -8.9 I get 1.9 not 2.4 I don't see how they came up with that and I think that is wrong.
Your looking at the wrong column, 2.4 is the range for the 15 foot mark data.

For the 11 foot mark the data is 11ft, Average 9.9, Min. 8.9, Max. 10.8, Range 1.8 (You see 1.8 and not 1.9 because it only shows you the numbers to one decimal place and it's probably been rounded)

Launch Angle Bowling Tips
[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by TonyPR »

Now you understand... good for you, as humbling as it may feel a CATS test shows you what you need to work on. Physical game always comes before arsenal. Did you take a lesson after the CATS test?

On a side note, short patterns can be tricky if you are not used to standing right of 20. When I start my practice shots on short I like to slide around 10-12.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by pjape »

You're not alone in regards to "sucking" at launch angle; most league bowlers do. This is because cake-easy house shots allow you to get away with huge variations in the launch angle. That's why most bowlers have a huge drop in average when going to sport shots.

Kegel did a similar test when Richard Shockley was still there, and the one stat that sticks in my mind was the accuracy at the arrows when they tested Walter Ray. He actually did 15 shots, and his total range at the arrows was just half a board. :o
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by bowl1820 »

krava wrote:Fig #1 http://picpaste.com/pics/001-ipedDnpy.1502245085.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #2 http://picpaste.com/pics/002-Lxq4F1Rt.1502245136.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #3 http://picpaste.com/pics/003-cH0e1mXQ.1502245166.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #4 http://picpaste.com/pics/004-ywmPLZRJ.1502245208.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #5 http://picpaste.com/pics/005-59N7tkFv.1502245249.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #6 http://picpaste.com/006-7m6Ji8O7.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #7 http://picpaste.com/pics/007-XHoyFUBM.1502245329.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #8 http://picpaste.com/pics/008-K6fQkj2X.1502245404.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fig #9 http://picpaste.com/pics/009-kMoBeyAw.1502245378.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will reference Fig's as needed.


The CATS program is done on a pair of lanes. The left lane has a 44 foot pattern I believe on it and on the right lane is a 34 foot pattern (one of them was called London).
London is the 44' pattern.
First of all how can you have any consistant launch angle at all if all you care about is hitting 1 target and looking at 1 target. You can hit that 1 target in a large number of angles. So my assumption now is that I need to focus on atleast 2 points.
You should look up and read some of the articles on "3 Point Targeting "

Example:

Understanding 3 Point Targeting with Quiet Eye in 7 Easy Steps
http://www.kegeltrainingcenter.com/ktc- ... easy-steps

See Fig 3. According to the chart you need to reference where it says 11ft which is at the arrows.
Actually the arrows are at the 15 ft. mark
Image

Which is usually where you are checking for your accuracy range. Most usually target the second arrow and take their 10 shots (which looking at your sheet is where you appear to be shooting.)

The data for the 15ft. mark is Average 10.4, Min. 8.4, Max. 12.0, Range 3.6.

So at the 2nd arrow your range is 3.6 (This is the one referenced in the comparison chart "Your results" area, which means your basically spraying the ball over about a 3 1/2" area.

That right there is why I said in a past post, that making 1/2 board adjustments are basically meaningless for most people.

If someone is just rolling back and forth across a 4" area over 10 frames, trying to adjust your target or feet a half board part way through doesn't accomplish much.
See Fig #4. The first chart shows you the ball path from the point it hits the lane to the pins. You can see that 1 error shot in there somewhere. I personally believe their should be 11 shots and 1 error shot should be thrown out. You can have 9 completely exact shots and then that 1 off shot that throws everything off.


If you throw out all the misses that would be about like Texas sharpshooting then, Mistakes teach you valuable lessons.

When I was bowling I was about as nervous as I am when I need 1 strike to hit 300. The only thing I was thinking was don't mess up and throw the ball wrong and throw everything off.
That pretty much happens to everyone the first time.

I decided that my best option was to throw straight down the 5 board.
Typically on short oil you would play down the outside, so this was about where you should have been.
On the short pattern, I stood on 22 and threw down 5.
That's standing too far right to play down 5 and if you walked left any on your approach that would be even worse.

As Tony said you should have been standing and sliding more around 10-12.

Fig 7-9 shows the results from the Short oil pattern. I was all over the place. The breakpoint is absolutely huge. The only good thing is that I didn't get the ball in the gutter. If you take out that error shot #5 shot. I still had accuracy at the arrows as +-1 board approx.
Looking at those charts you were not +/- 1 board at the arrows.

Looking at Fig.7 your target arrow range boards result was 4.5, That means you were +/- 2.25 boards at the arrows.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by bowl1820 »

pjape wrote: Kegel did a similar test when Richard Shockley was still there, and the one stat that sticks in my mind was the accuracy at the arrows when they tested Walter Ray. He actually did 15 shots, and his total range at the arrows was just half a board. :o
I was at Kegel back when Shockley was there and I remember he told that us that too. At that time I think he said also that there were only like 3 or 4 other guys on the tour about that accurate.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by krava »

I watched the video and maybe I am not understanding something. It talks about what a launch angle is, but it doesn't tell you how to obtain one. It tells you what you are doing wrong if it changes (looping ball etc) but still how do you get one in the first place. I believe that is having that 2 point atleast targeting system. I saw the 3 point targeting system quiet eye video several times. I know the 3 points are the bottom of the pins, the breakpoint and the actual target but I don't see where this quiet eye refers to. I will start at the 2 point system and then try to work up to the 3. I am not sure if I can see the rangefinders so I might have to use the 3 point system and take out the middle point. I can see the bottom of the pins but still too much glare where the range finder is at around 38-40 feet I believe.

I am not saying throw all the data out. I would throw one of them out. If you took that bad shot out on the short oil one then the results would have been alot better. Another option would be do 15 shots instead of 10 and throw 1 out. I will live with the way they got it and try not to make an bad shot. I rushed at the line trying to get it over with and didn't take my time at all. Each shot was less then about 3-5 seconds before I started to move.

I asked about if I need a full day, half day or what kind of lesson and Rom told me a half a day is fine. I will go back for a half a day once I have had some practice with this new 2 point system. I am trying to get to the lanes today to try that out. He told me I need about 30-60 hours of practice etc. Or I needed that in between lessons or something. I want to work on this and then practice a few times on a short pattern before I try that again.

I think you are wrong bowl1820 about the 2nd arrow or whatever the 3.6 info is. I am not sure where they measure accuracy at the 2nd arrow. I guess it is inbetween 11-15 feet. The sheet shows 11 feet arrows so that is what I went with. I have no idea how far the 2nd arrow is actually away from the foul line. I have to call maybe and ask them why the data doesn't match what it printed out in the results. It has to probably do with an inbetween measure somehow.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by MegaMav »

krava wrote:I watched the video and maybe I am not understanding something. It talks about what a launch angle is, but it doesn't tell you how to obtain one.

I am not saying throw all the data out. I would throw one of them out.

I think you are wrong bowl1820 about the 2nd arrow or whatever the 3.6 info is.
You dont even know what you're talking about, yet you're telling bowl1820 hes wrong as well as CATS?
You've got some nerve buddy. Time for a reputation comparison: -9 vs. +314
I'm tempted to ban you, just because it feels right.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by bowl1820 »

krava wrote:I watched the video and maybe I am not understanding something. It talks about what a launch angle is, but it doesn't tell you how to obtain one.
"Make better lane play decisions: a primer on launch angle"
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/sto ... 12-x1a.pdf

CLICK HERE FOR THE CORRECTED LAYDOWN TO DOTS LAUNCH ANGLE CHART in the article.
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/sto ... l_2012.jpg
He told me I need about 30-60 hours of practice etc.
Remember don't rush and try doing those 30-60 all at once. (In other words don't try and do it all in one week)
I think you are wrong bowl1820 about the 2nd arrow or whatever the 3.6 info is.
Sorry I was looking at Fig#1's data, That's where the 3.6 came from. It should have been fig#3. A lot of charts to check through, easy to mix them up

The CATS charts are fairly explicit on where they are measuring data . Looking at Fig.#3 chart "Position Data" you'll see the ball location on the lane (accuracy if you will) is measured at 2ft, 11ft, 15ft, 39ft, 51ft, 56ft and 60ft (The pins) and below those headings it shows the min/max measurements taken at those points. The other charts have the measurements for each shot.

The data for the 15ft. mark (the arrows) is Average 9.9, Min. 8.3, Max. 10.7, Range 2.4.

A 9.9 Average means, on average the player is hitting about 2nd arrow (the 10 brd.) on their shot.

The 8.3 min. means the player missed 2nd arrow (assuming that was their target) right at most about 2 boards (1.6).

The 10.7 Max. means the player missed 2nd arrow (assuming that was their target) left at most about a 1/2 board.

The 2.4 is the accuracy range for the 15ft. position , Just like 1.8 is the range at 11 feet.

I am not sure where they measure accuracy at the 2nd arrow. I guess it is inbetween 11-15 feet.
The sheet shows 11 feet arrows so that is what I went with.
I have no idea how far the 2nd arrow is actually away from the foul line.
On all lanes the arrows portion of the rangefinder by ABC/USBC rule are located at 15 feet, As shown in the diagram I included above. The tip of the second arrow is right at 15 feet.

Now they may well have talked to you about accuracy at the 11 foot mark (why I don't know), Just know that 11ft. is not where the arrows are.
Last edited by bowl1820 on August 9th, 2017, 8:53 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by bowl1820 »

Okay going over the other charts closer Fig#1 appears to be just a example cats chart from back in May, So is not "your" cats data. That needed to be noted in your post to have avoided confusion, That's where I got the 3.6 from sorry for not noticing earlier. Corrections made in above posts.

Fig#3 is your data for the long pattern and shows you do have a better accuracy at 15ft. with a 2.4 range.

Fig#7 is your data for the short pattern and shows a lower accuracy at 15ft. with a 4.5 range.

And it appears you are missing right more than left.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by krava »

The chart is confusing to me as well. I almost have a degree in math. I have taken Calculus 1,2,3 ADV calculus 1 and about 15 more hours of math and I though I knew how to read a chart correctly. I couldn't for the life of me figure out where they got the 2.4 from. I will go back and look.

I don't mean any disrespect to bowl1820 at all ever, if you look I always thanked him etc. I thought the sample data threw my info in it also. All these charts get confusing. I have to find my papers to see if they show where it is at 15 feet. If bowl1820 saw the numbers then they must be there. I didn't look over it that well. I don't know why they put 11 feet (arrows) on the chart that confuses people. I went to the chart saw 11 feet and it was marked arrows so I looked got the data there and that is how I came to wonder why cats said what it did. I believe it needs to be a bit more clearer if I can make a mistake like this.

Thanks for the links I will look at them a bit later when I can and grab my sheets and see if I can figure that 2.4 thing out as well. As for reputation, I believe bowl 1820 should be higher then the 341 or whatever. He post and helps more then anyone here I believe. As for mine all you have to do is click on the -9 and it is easy to see how that happend if you haven't already. I do try to help when I can. I have to learn first before I can help.

Ok I see where my mistake was made. I haven't had much sleep in the past 4 days because of a crick probalby in my neck. If you look at Fig 4 or whatever it says (boards) not arrows. I was thinking the 11 board is 2nd arrow. I need to get some sleep for sure. Someone do an experiment ask people at the bowling alley how far down the lane the arrows are and I bet not many people at all would know. I had no idea myself. If it was me explaining the chart, I would take a red pin and circle the 15 board column or whatever column that corresponds to that person. I would circle it and say, here is how they got this data here etc. You can see I was completely lost at it so it wasn't explained in complete detail to me. That is one of the reasons I posted this on here for people that might be interested in doing something like this to get more information and to make sure that I explain it right or someone correct me. Bowl1820 corrected me when he said look at the 15 foot measurement.

I am very bad at depth perception also. When I park I am usually atleast 6 feet away from the where I need to pull up to etc.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by bowl1820 »

krava wrote: I couldn't for the life of me figure out where they got the 2.4 from.
The 2.4 you see on the Fig.#3 chart at the 15ft position, is just the difference between the Min. & Max measurements. Max 10.7 - Min. 8.3 = a 2.4 range
I have to find my papers to see if they show where it is at 15 feet.
Its right at the top in the Position Data (boards) on the Fig#3 chart
fig#3 http://picpaste.com/pics/003-cH0e1mXQ.1502245166.jpg
Someone do an experiment ask people at the bowling alley how far down the lane the arrows are and I bet not many people at all would know. I had no idea myself.
That's pretty well right, most people don't know the spec's of the lanes and it's markings. Other than just some basic's maybe.
If it was me explaining the chart, I would take a red pin and circle the 15 board column or whatever column that corresponds to that person. I would circle it and say, here is how they got this data here etc.
When they showed you these charts, if you didn't understand something. Like how something was figured or what the numbers represented, You should have asked!

Teaching and learning is a two street, as a student you have to ask questions and let the coaches know if you don't understand something they are trying to show you. That way they can adapt their teaching methods to better instruct you and others.
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by gunso »

MegaMav wrote:
You dont even know what you're talking about, yet you're telling bowl1820 hes wrong as well as CATS?
You've got some nerve buddy. Time for a reputation comparison: -9 vs. +314
I'm tempted to ban you, just because it feels right.
It looks like krava was right about his assumption. I also discpurage you from banning krava. This board is not what it used to be when it comes to interesting discussions and even though krava might not be the most understandable person he elicits discussions and discussions are always good. probably alot of other beginners with the same questions or perceptions who don't have his nerves of asking everything that comes to his mind
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by MegaMav »

gunso wrote:
It looks like krava was right about his assumption. I also discpurage you from banning krava. This board is not what it used to be when it comes to interesting discussions and even though krava might not be the most understandable person he elicits discussions and discussions are always good. probably alot of other beginners with the same questions or perceptions who don't have his nerves of asking everything that comes to his mind
I was kidding, I dont just ban people, but his some of his responses and comments on here are borderline warning territory. He has no warnings, and should keep it that way by being respectful and appreciative of the help he gets.
Not a fan of immediate dismissal of help offered from good sources with no basis in fact.
His decision! I dont think it looks good, but thats just me.

Carry on.
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bowl1820
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by bowl1820 »

krava wrote: If you reference Fig #1, You will see Skill Level and then all of the 4 measurements. They did not explain to me the different skill levels. I know that 210 average is a Tier 2 and a 220 average is Teir 1 I don't know what all the other Teirs are.
The different tiers

Tier 10: 139-
Tier 09: 140-149
Tier 08: 150-159
Tier 07: 160-169
Tier 06: 170-179
Tier 05: 180-189
Tier 04: 190-199
Tier 03: 200-209
Tier 02: 210-219
Tier 01: 220+
Elite: Pro
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by stevespo »

Krava, I realize you have vision problems that make looking down lane difficult (impossible?). There are some good articles/videos out on "3 point targeting/quiet eye" that may help to explain how to improve accuracy with both targeting and launch angle.

My own strategy is to look down lane at the breakpoint (using tracers, light reflection, pin reflection, etc). I bring my eyes back to my target (around the arrows) and then to the foul line (release point). I then look back to my target, and go! It's a quick process. Visualize this ball path through the front of the lane.

I attempt to post every shot, watch the ball path and note to myself if I was near my target, on the breakpoint, in the pocket? Where did the ball exit the pin deck? I regularly look down at my feet to see if I walked to the release point and slid in the spot I intended.

If you can't watch the path of the ball, and step out of your shot - you will have to work on another strategy to gather this data. Video and/or an observant friend may be helpful. Be honest and objective. Quantify if possible.

It's difficult to make adjustments without consistent execution and knowing if you are doing what you think you are doing. I'm no expert, just slowing trying to improve...

Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by kajmk »

gunso wrote:
It looks like krava was right about his assumption. I also discourage you from banning krava. This board is not what it used to be when it comes to interesting discussions and even though krava might not be the most understandable person he elicits discussions and discussions are always good. probably alot of other beginners with the same questions or perceptions who don't have his nerves of asking everything that comes to his mind
I sensed Eric was joking.

Every time people seek teach or explain, good things can happen to and for the student, the teacher, the observer. Teachers teach, but they also learn as try to teach. A good teacher will seek to make sure everyone "gets it" .
In essence, a teacher sharpens his sword as he teaches his students.

Other good things: expression of humanity, caring, sharing, self awareness, setting positive examples.

I've learned a lot from various folks via BowlingChat over the years, I wish my memory and power of observation were better.

krava, remember bowling involves geometry. In some cases it might be easier to separate the geometry, the physics, the chemistry etc. The more you read and research from diverse sources, the better your understanding may become.

Simple example of launch angle, a protractor.
Set a protractor on a piece of paper, draw lines from various angles.

Military Tank with gun turret, tank moving forward, pointing turret at target ...

Graphic Bowling example, this video which appears in several threads on the forum.

[youtube][/youtube]

As for the length of your posts, consider writing them first on paper or a text document.
Then segment large posts.

I'm guessing there are far more people that do not read your posts due to the length.
Many of them might have great solutions.
We live in an era of short attention span, so it's becoming common.

Also, journalize the questions you have asked and the answers you have received.

You are trying to eat an elephant in one bite ...

Regarding skill levels
https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowlin ... re-number/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
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Re: IRTC Review and in depth CATS review

Post by 2y2 »

I don´t think it´s all about the length, by the way, most of your posts are also very long posts Kajmk. I myself write lengthy posts sometimes but I try to get to the point and make it as concise as possible. The problem I see is the huge amount of useless information with one of two possibilities, or it is a complaint/excuse or it is a really long story full of things that no one but the writer can understand because they happen only in the condition he describes and it is impossible to be there, so many details are not accurate nor they can add to the discussion. If Krava just described the facts and the precise question using a common bowling language and avoided all kinds of extra comments around, It would even be an interesting topic to read.
If you think I helped, please click on the "+" button, Thanks.
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