Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd arr

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Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd arr

Post by krava »

This should be a good question but most people probably haven't ran accross this. Lets say that your used to playing the outside part of the lane or the track area. Lets say you leave a 2 pin, or a 2 4 5. Most people will probably use a version of their strike ball to pick this up. For me, I will probably move 2 boards right and throw the same mark and strike ball to get this. When playing in the outside or track area then the lanes are fresh or nearly fresh and not burnt up. You can also throw a spare ball (plastic ) and move left to get it but that double wood with a straight ball will be hard to get.

Now lets move to the topic. Lets say that the lanes are dried up to the 3rd arrow. (so if you throw the ball in the track area, it will roll out, bad ball roll etc). Now you leave the 2 4 5. How are you suppose to pick this up assuming your strike line is at the 3rd arrow? You can't move right 2 boards and hit the 3rd arrow because then it will push your ball into that burnt up zone. (after thinking about it maybe you can do that? Just make sure you don't get it any further right then you did with the strike ball?) The only 2 options I see is #1 drop the speed and shoot the exact same strike ball and hope to god you slowed it down enough for it to go brooklyn. #2 If your shooting 3rd arrow then now try to aim for the 1 board left of 3rd arrow which will throw the ball brooklyn to begin with. I am not sure which one would be best, I would take speed off if it was me.

Now take another spare. 4 8 double wood maybe? (or whatever the double wood is for that). How do you approach that? If you are used to shooting left hand spares from the right, you might move enother board right or 2 boards right and shoot the strike ball at that. But not since your playing the 3rd arrow, the right part of the lane is off limits (too dried out etc). If I had to go after this, I would throw my strike ball aiming at 1 board left of 3rd arrow and take just a tad bit of speed off (.5mph or so).


Here is another question: Lets take the 10 pin. Normally I play left to right throwing the ball 3rd arrow straight diagonally at the 10. The lanes I played on yesterday were not "totally dried out" they were dry and you can't trust the ball in a certain area of the lane. Usually I have to stand 4 boards left of the last dot (when they have the correct number of dots out on the lane and not minus like this place did), and throw 3rd arrow. This place I had to move 2 or 3 boards left of that and hit 3rd arrow because my straight ball wanted to hook once it hit the 1 or 2 board. (maybe the place doesn't have 3 units of oil on 1 and 2 or whatever. I had to move over another 3 boards or so left and move my target left 2 or 3 boards of the 3rd arrow. Have you ever had to move where you target your spares on a lane when throwing a perfectly straight ball? (not your feet, your actual target.) Also I don't count this as moving. For me to pick up a 6 pin, I can either stand at 21 and throw down 8 or I can stand 2 boards left of the last dot on the left and hit the 3rd arrow to get it. There is no way for me to stand on 21 and hit 8 at that place with that lane condition.


I went to Maverick bowling center. I believe they have wood lanes. I asked them when were the lanes last oiled and they told me the don't know, It could been Friday or Saturday. I got there after 3pm and it was pretty busy. I believe they have about 12-14 lanes so I know people have bowled on the lanes before me probably a few times. I did not video my first game because I thought I would do badly and needed to warm up and find a line. My first game was 223. First 2 balls were strikes. 3rd frame I left a 5 6 or something with the 6 pin that is just to the right. I threw a straight ball and it jumped on me chopping the pin on the left and leaving the 6, then double etc and clean after that 1 chop. I was shooting 3rd arrow and missing alot 2 boards to the right. I did not bring my "good stuff" because I didn't want the lanes eating my balls up. I used a storm joyride to start (that ball still has a chunk knocked out I need fixed).

I don't have very many games under my belt playing the 3rd arrow so cut me slack on that. I know I have less then 10.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Playing 3rd arrow
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Playing 3rd arrow


Now my VERY first game shooting 4th arrow. I wanted to play the 4th arrow because I thought that If I played the 4th arrow, I will have to toss the ball over the gutter. So I guess Bashay was right saying you don't have to. For me to play 4th arrow, I was standing at 43 with my left foot to start and ended up at 44. I was also bouncing back from 43 to 44 trying to figure out what was right. Now what I did correctly, was I did not drift. I have watched the videos a little bit and I see my foot sliding real close to where it is suppose to. My foot is either 43 or 44 almost at the gutter on the left side. My accuracy was really bad. I was within 2 boards of the target 100% of the time but only rolled over the arrow itsself once or twice the whole game. 1 board left missing 4th arrow threw the ball brooklyn, 2 boards left I would hit the 4 pin. (rarely missed it 2 boards left). Hitting the 4th arrow, I would usually hit the pocket high and 1 board miss to the right would be a 1-3 pocket hit. 2 boards right I will come in extremely light and split leaving like a 1 2 4 10.

I started the game off with the joyride (which is an even weaker ball then the storm match), and about 4th frame I moved up to a columbia 300 swerve FX (I didn't want to use anything good with surface because that place tears up balls bad).


" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (that is my first game ever playing 4th arrow) 6:23 was a good shot but almost fell down. That is how I am suppose to play that line.

From the video I see that something is going on major with my balance at the line. I am not used to walking straight and throwing diagonally right. I was trying to hit a board almost 20 boards left of where I was standing. I can hit 4th arrow (which is on board 20?) by standing on 31 or 32. IF I stand there and hit 4th arrow, I will be throwing the ball straight up the boards and not out. Meaning I will be throwing straight up 20 and never getting the ball to left of 20. I have to stand more left to get the ball out more. My goal was to get it out maybe to 12 and back in.

I didn't listen to the audio when playing back the video but I know I explained what happend when I missed like saying 2 boards left, 2 boards right etc. I know when I miss from the start


also have to point out if you don't know how to play "inside" then read this article here:

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowlin ... parachute/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Rob Mautner write


right now I don't want to bowl on a normal lane condtion. If I am not bowling league, I will either bowl at a house that forces me to bowl 3rd arrow or beyond or I will bowl the national shot. If I can't get either one of these then I will bowl on a normal lane condition with only a spare ball and practice spares. No more easy stuff. Easy stuff is reserved for league.
Last edited by krava on July 24th, 2017, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by 44boyd »

I think your angles are too straight on the 3rd arrow video. Looks like your exit point was around 12-15 board causing you to go high. Looks like the ball was a pin under pearl, so I'd try something to go a little longer and try to get around the 10 board at the exit to see if it'll hit the pocket. Or could be something as simple as creating more angle at the front so it skids longer.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by bowl1820 »

krava wrote: Here is another question: Lets take the 7 pin. Normally I play left to right throwing the ball 3rd arrow straight diagonally at the 7. The lanes I played on yesterday were not "totally dried out" they were dry and you can't trust the ball in a certain area of the lane. Usually I have to stand 4 boards left of the last dot (when they have the correct number of dots out on the lane and not minus like this place did), and throw 3rd arrow. This place I had to move 2 or 3 boards left of that and hit 3rd arrow because my straight ball wanted to hook once it hit the 1 or 2 board. (maybe the place doesn't have 3 units of oil on 1 and 2 or whatever. I had to move over another 3 boards or so left and move my target left 2 or 3 boards of the 3rd arrow.


Didn't you mean to say the "10" pin here instead of the "7"?

Because you don't stand far left and throw across 3rd arrow out to the 1 or 2 board to pick up a 7 pin.

Bowling Tips - Picking Up the Corner Pin Spares - Brad Angelo (righthanded) and Parker Bohn III (lefthanded)
[youtube][/youtube]
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by pjape »

Maybe he meant right to left for the seven pin.

Krava, I watched the first video, and you wiffed the 2-4. In my opinion, you should not throw left side spares off your strike line. Learn to throw a plastic ball dead straight at every spare (except double wood). This totally takes the lane condition out of the picture.

For me personally, when I have a seven pin, I always stand on the first dot on the right, and target around 15. As long as I hit my target, I will not miss it. When I miss a seven it's because my timing gets off and I close the shoulder too much and the ball goes too much right to left and I'll miss left. But, a miss like this has nothing to do with the lane condition; it's all me.

I see more easy spares wiffed in league competition when guys hook it at left side spares, and it hooks more or less than they expected. I'll never figure out why bowlers do this.

PS One exception that is seen more nowadays is throwing a straight ball at the 3-6-9-10. I've found this works very well, as it's a very easy spare to miss throwing a hook ball at it, especially when the outside part of the lane is either fried or very oily.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by kajmk »

Pure logic by pjape. Simple geometry. Less variables.

Shooting simple spares is like a pitcher holding a runner on first base.
The pitcher throws straight to the first baseman, not a slider, not a curve.

Kudos to pjape!
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by imagonman »

WOW!
You're the model of inconsistency. Made moves off bad shots & end up making things worse. Quick path to being totally lost out there.
You can't see double wood? AND don't know which pins are which?
You need a good coach 1st of all. Susie M. told you there was nothing to work on?? C'mon.........! I see plenty. 2nd...turn the scoring off! You're so worried about how many in all your vids instead of working on CONSISTENCY in all aspects of your game, from set-up to foul line, release etc. Nothing to work on?
Blaming the dots on the lane (or lack thereof) for getting lined up. I realize this is uncharted waters for you but hopefully is a wake up call to get out of your 8bd. comfort zone & grow.
PLENTY TO WORK ON!
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by bowl1820 »

pjape wrote:Maybe he meant right to left for the seven pin.
Possibly if this was all there was to the paragraph:
Here is another question: Lets take the 7 pin. Normally I play left to right throwing the ball 3rd arrow straight diagonally at the 7.
But if so, then what is the rest of the paragraph referring too?

Replacing the 7 with a 10 makes the rest of the paragraph make more sense.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by kajmk »

One of the things Susie has written regarding practice.
Paraphrasing here, "Some times the only ball a bowler should bring to practice is a spare ball". That is not only to practice spares.
Use it because it is one way to remove the focus from the score.

We know modern targeting involves 3 points. Plot the points, connect the dots.
In essence Ondar Gurkans ETT drill applied to many lines.

Video your sessions, write notes, record notes.

If there is no challenge there is no growth.
Expand your skill set , challenge yourself.
Growth often requires change.
If you always do, what you always do. You always get what you always get.

We all start from some place.

Straight ball lessens the impact of the lane characteristics.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by krava »

Thanks for all the comments I will read later on today. I am not worried about scoring. In those videos I think I averaged 160. If I was worried about my score I wouldn't post them. I think the 4th arrow score was 134 I am not sure. Also susie didn't see me play 3rd and 4th arrow, it was too wet out there. I already throw plastic on anything but a double wood. I might throw a strike ball at a 2 pin though or a 5 pin. Someone said something about not seing a double wood. Don't forget I have had 4 eye operations and my vision is horrid. Sometimes I can't see someone's face 4 feet infront of me. I can see they are there but not like their eyes. (depends on where the posterior detached viteous in my right eye is at, at that point in time). I will re read comments again later today. THanks for comments good or bad. I have no problems taking bad comments that helps getting to the root of the problem in the first place.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by krava »

bowl1820 wrote:
Possibly if this was all there was to the paragraph:


But if so, then what is the rest of the paragraph referring too?

Replacing the 7 with a 10 makes the rest of the paragraph make more sense.

I made a mistake it should be the 10 pin. 7 pin 4 pin isn't a problem. Sorry I messed up and put 7 instead of 10. will go back and fix.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by imagonman »

krava wrote: FROM another thread:

The shot I did was stand on 22 and shoot up 8. I didn't try to put any diagonal on it. Normal house shot, I stand on 26 and throw up 8. 6th game, I was standing on 24 throwing at 9 board out to 7 and back in.

AND in another you say:

For me I can hit the 8 board on any of this (standing 18-23), 10 board (22-28) If beyond that I have to move my target. Straight up 8 is me standing on 19 or 20.
Soooooo...........which is it?
How does this equate to any consistent line at all? Physically or otherwise?
No wonder you are 'all over the place'.
Bcuz you're all over the place.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by kajmk »

krava wrote:Thanks for all the comments I will read later on today. I am not worried about scoring. In those videos I think I averaged 160. If I was worried about my score I wouldn't post them. I think the 4th arrow score was 134 I am not sure. Also susie didn't see me play 3rd and 4th arrow, it was too wet out there. I already throw plastic on anything but a double wood. I might throw a strike ball at a 2 pin though or a 5 pin. Someone said something about not seing a double wood. Don't forget I have had 4 eye operations and my vision is horrid. Sometimes I can't see someone's face 4 feet infront of me. I can see they are there but not like their eyes. (depends on where the posterior detached viteous in my right eye is at, at that point in time). I will re read comments again later today. THanks for comments good or bad. I have no problems taking bad comments that helps getting to the root of the problem in the first place.

krava, what are you able to see on the lanes? You mentioned that your vision is inconsistent due to your condition.
So describe what you can see at your best and at your worst.
For example can you always see the pins and as discrete objects, not a blur.
In his book, Ron Hoppe mentioned coaching a bowler who is legally blind
This thread has a post with that page from Ron's book.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11660&p=93407&hilit=Legally#p93407" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looking up Ron on Google, I found this website. You might drop him an email.
http://www.haleysproshop.com/ron-hoppe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are several videos by USBC with Ron on Youtube.
Ron might be able to give you some advice or refer you to someone who has helped sight impaired bowler's.

One of the things Ron does is interview his new students, its a mutual learning experience.

I think the ETT drills using plastic and the 3 point targeting system will help you develop your physical and mental game.

Perhaps you might consider adding that you are sight impaired to your profile and signature.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by krava »

44boyd wrote:I think your angles are too straight on the 3rd arrow video. Looks like your exit point was around 12-15 board causing you to go high. Looks like the ball was a pin under pearl, so I'd try something to go a little longer and try to get around the 10 board at the exit to see if it'll hit the pocket. Or could be something as simple as creating more angle at the front so it skids longer.

It is a pin up pearl Storm joyride (very weak ball) I don't have anything drilled pin under except a Storm hot rod Hybrid. I am not sure how to create more angle at the front unless I move further left.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by krava »

pjape wrote:Maybe he meant right to left for the seven pin.

Krava, I watched the first video, and you wiffed the 2-4. In my opinion, you should not throw left side spares off your strike line. Learn to throw a plastic ball dead straight at every spare (except double wood). This totally takes the lane condition out of the picture.

For me personally, when I have a seven pin, I always stand on the first dot on the right, and target around 15. As long as I hit my target, I will not miss it. When I miss a seven it's because my timing gets off and I close the shoulder too much and the ball goes too much right to left and I'll miss left. But, a miss like this has nothing to do with the lane condition; it's all me.

I see more easy spares wiffed in league competition when guys hook it at left side spares, and it hooks more or less than they expected. I'll never figure out why bowlers do this.

PS One exception that is seen more nowadays is throwing a straight ball at the 3-6-9-10. I've found this works very well, as it's a very easy spare to miss throwing a hook ball at it, especially when the outside part of the lane is either fried or very oily.

I throw plastic at everything that doesn't have a double wood in it. The only exception is a 2 or 5 pin and I throw a version of the strike ball at it.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by krava »

imagonman wrote: **2

Soooooo...........which is it?
How does this equate to any consistent line at all? Physically or otherwise?
No wonder you are 'all over the place'.
Bcuz you're all over the place.
Good catch there. . **1 (i had to look at the video I did today to answer that). For me to throw straight down 8 and not out at all, I need to stand 19 or 20 (that is for a very slick shot throwing straight down and not out at all). {I am in process of posting spare ball video. In the video I stand at 21 throw down 10 board). When I do a house shot pattern, I start at 21 and move all the way to 23 if I have to and still target 8. SO I can hit 8 board from 19-23 board any further left and I will miss that board. The 10 board, I played today and can play it standing at 21 but 22 feels more comfortable and can play it all the way to 3 boards left of the 25 board dot. The more left I go the further out the ball goes. I am just guessing here. Lets say I am at 19 playing 10 board. My laydown board might be 12 to 10 out to 8. If I am playing 28 board. My laydown board might be 15 to 10 out to 6. (which doesn't make since thinking about this since the breakpoint board should move further inward and not outward the drier the lanes get humm).

If I am standing on 22 hitting 8 I am not going straight up 8 I am going out to 7 or maybe even 6,


I am not sure what happend here. I quoted him and put my replies in with his and now all his quotes are gone so this might not make since to people.
Last edited by krava on July 25th, 2017, 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by krava »

[quote="kajmk"][/quote]


krava, what are you able to see on the lanes? You mentioned that your vision is inconsistent due to your condition.
So describe what you can see at your best and at your worst.
For example can you always see the pins and as discrete objects, not a blur.
In his book, Ron Hoppe mentioned coaching a bowler who is legally blind
This thread has a post with that page from Ron's book.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11660&p=93407&hilit=Legally#p93407" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looking up Ron on Google, I found this website. You might drop him an email.
http://www.haleysproshop.com/ron-hoppe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are several videos by USBC with Ron on Youtube.
Ron might be able to give you some advice or refer you to someone who has helped sight impaired bowler's.

One of the things Ron does is interview his new students, its a mutual learning experience.

I think the ETT drills using plastic and the 3 point targeting system will help you develop your physical and mental game. (I need to be taught that 3 point targeting system, but I can't see 1 of the parts which is that range finder, I need to see that to know where my ball needs to be around 38 feet etc).

What can I see? I can see the arrows for sure. I can't see the long black range finders out on the lanes there is too much glare. If I stand up (there is a step down that you step down to get to the lane), I can see the range finders from there but once I am level I can't see the range finders. I have to look really hard after the ball is thrown and maybe get a glimpse of it. I can see every pin out there. I wish I could see those black range finders.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by flibblesh »

krava wrote:I am not worried about scoring.
krava wrote:In those videos I think I averaged 160.
Which is it?
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by 44boyd »

krava wrote:

It is a pin up pearl Storm joyride (very weak ball) I don't have anything drilled pin under except a Storm hot rod Hybrid. I am not sure how to create more angle at the front unless I move further left.
Yes you would, I think you're not getting the ball right soon enough so it has time to recover (a banana arc instead of hockey stick). Just different ideas to get you different shape since you tend to not swing it much. And you might want to play with some pin under layouts, see what that gives you that you're currently lacking in your lineup.
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by krava »

I need to read the replies for the day but I just woke up and it is almost 1pm. Will go back and read. It took each of these videos 2 hours to post so didn't have them done until I woke up.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (1st game spare ball only. It was a THS fresh shot after 2 5 man teams bowled on the lanes. I bowled after they did. No warm up shots and took me 3 strike shots to find the pocket. Also I didn't try to strike because the purpose was to pick up spares. If I wanted to strike alot I would have moved my line from 10 to 8 and have more angle into the pocket). The goal of the plastic bacll was hit the pocket and pick everything else up that I left.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; 2nd game with the spare ball

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Playing 3rd arrow. THese are syntethic lanes, the ball doesn't like to come back playing that deep on these. I believe this is the 2nd game I bowled 3rd arrow. IF it is, I was using hammer bad intentions hybrid which has more surface on it. 1st half of video is fuzzy due to phone almost dying and 2nd half i turned the self charge battery on. I will check later today.

I am going to also get the guy that knows how to play deep to coach me hopefully he does instead of trying to help everyone else. He only charges $25 an hour but every time I try to get coached he runs off to someone else. But Most of the time I don't get charged $25
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Re: Picking up left hand spares when lane is burnt up to 3rd

Post by imagonman »

O.K. - 1st game @ 5:50 shooting the 6-10 spare. You lined up on 25 & threw the ball straight up 6/7? (hard to see exactly) Then the next shot (strike ball) lined up 0n 24 threw up 8?? or there abouts. How does this make any sense?

Then a 7 pin @ 6:40 - you line up on 23 and miss it- pulled left. Seems you shoot all your spares (
from 7 left to 10 pin on right) from the same place on the approach starting position.

Next game #2 - left a 4/7 then 2/5/7 baby split then 2/8 dbl. wood. ALL shot from a bd or 2 around your strike line. (bd25).
How does that make any sense??

You have NO spare shooting system at all. Not that I can decipher from observation.

You are NOT accomplishing anything here the last 2 days! Still shooting a strike line on 1st ball and shooting whats left. Just like going out bowling a regular game session but w/ a plastic ball. Big deal! You are not 'working' on anything. Oh , that's right "several coaches have told you your physical game is fine, don't worry about it" You need new coaches then AND a practice regiment/plan! Your friend, Ladge, videoing is not the guy to ask.
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