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 Post subject: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:11 am Post Number: #1 Post
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I am not sure what to call the topic again. I used to see people bowl 1 real good game and then follow it with a really bad one and think they have no idea what they are doing or why did that happen. I can understand bowling bad the first game and then good the next. You might not have been doing something right that you should have had and I have had that a few times myself. After figuring out what I was doing wrong I did good the rest of the night but I have not had this happen to me until this week. I am not sure what that is called. Is that called Missing the transition? When I practiced this week, I threw atleast 6 shots at the 10 pin getting about 1/2 of them. I already had my strike line locked up and didn't want to wear it down. It was only me and my team mate on a pair of lanes.

I did learn something this week though. I was throwing the ball with a bit too much speed the first game. I had a little bit of deflection when I hit the pins and I didn't like the way the ball was rolling (storm match). I slowed the ball down just a tad and it felt more natural throwing it and the ball looked so much better rolling I think and I never left a 10 pin and it hit very good. 2nd game I shot 259. I am not sure what I left but I think I had all strikes and 2 spares. XX 9/ (10 pin) XXXXX9/ XXX or something. I saw the lanes breaking down pretty quick also. THe first game I had to move from 20 to 22 and still threw accross 8. The 3rd game things went to hell. If I remember correctly, I moved to 23 and threw accross 9 and got a double, after that I left atleast 4 10 pins missing 2, I also left 2 splits with one of the splits suprising me as it looked like a strike but jumped a bit too high in the pocket at the end, I ended that game with a 161 which is almost 100 pins lower then my previoius game. I haven't done something like that in a long time I can't remember doing it. I had 460 for a 2 game series and then blew it. I was thinking just need 240 to get another 700 and I was throwing the ball good and felt comfortable.

I might be wrong but I think my ball has a "limit" The ball is drilled low flare and is also a weak ball which isn't a good combination. The ball likes to go straight and have a slight curve at the end. Once I hit 23 board left I change the shape of the ball to more of a banana shape and I don't think that ball is capable of that or something. I always run into all kinds of problems once I hit 23 left with that ball. Usually I don't have enough backend to get to the pocket but this time I had too much for some reason. Thinking back on it, I think I should have moved even more left and moved my mark left also but didn't do it because I was so close to getting a good hit in the pocket.

What did I do "miss the transition?" what exactly is transition? It was only me and her on the lanes and she was playing right of me or right on top of me with her ball. The lanes just dried out faster then normal.

My ball never "died" it was over hooking for some reason and I tried speeding it back up at the end. So I didn't have dead ball roll so I didn't change balls for that. I know I don't have any faith in that ball in playing left because of the way it is drilled and low flare means no backend almost. I also wasn't missing left very much at all either. It took me 3 times missing left before I moved to 23 that is one thing that hurt me a bit. I need to be more on top of things. When I throw a ball and I miss left, I have to think back did I hit the mark, did I do something wrong etc. I sometimes question myself and then do it again and when I do it twice in a row, I will change and make a move.

On a flat pattern it is harder for me to make a move. Usually I have to miss 5 times or so before I move left questioning myself if I actually did everything right. I have to get more on top of things. . Normally 90+% of the time I make a move, it is the right move (what I mean by that say I miss left, making that move stopped me from missing left again atleast for awhile).

I might have burned up too much of that part of the lane. I should have maybe done a 3 and 2 move left and see what happens. The ball was jumping bad on my team mate also. Right at the end divebombing more then what you think it would do.

So much could have been done, go down to a lower aggressive ball like BTU, or moved left with the same ball try it out, if it wasn't strong enough get something stronger. I don't like switching balls out unless I have to. I didn't have much room for error that night also.

But have any of you shot a good game and then shot a bad game and said what the hell happend?
I guess it is bad to increase your ball speed on purpose? I needed about another 2 feet for the ball to go further down and it would have been better. I think the answer should have been moving left and not just 1 board. I think that entire area was too dried up. (this is what inexperience gets you, bowling 1 league and only encountering this maybe once a year.)

Things should go off in your head, too much backend then make a drastic move not just a small one. Drastic meaning more then just 1/2 board moves like I do all the time. But then think about it, You have a low end low flare ball having too much backend, what do you do? The first thing in my head is to ball down to BTU which is even lower flare. If the ball isn't going far enough down the lane and hooking too early then move left. I think I know what to do but what happend? That sums up my whole reaction for the night of what just happend.


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:17 am Post Number: #2 Post
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I didn't see anywhere you wrote where the ball was going off the pin deck. That's what makes the pros so good, they see the need to move, ball up or down while still striking.

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:45 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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krava wrote:
]When I practiced this week, I threw at least 6 shots at the 10 pin getting about 1/2 of them.


50% then, I'd work on spare shooting to increase the percentage.


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I saw the lanes breaking down pretty quick also.


If you saw that then you needed to be making adjustments quicker.

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THe first game I had to move from 20 to 22 and still threw accross 8. The 3rd game things went to hell. If I remember correctly, I moved to 23 and threw accross 9 and got a double, after that I left atleast 4 10 pins missing 2, I also left 2 splits with one of the splits suprising me as it looked like a strike but jumped a bit too high in the pocket at the end,


This seems to indicate your still stuck in a rut of just playing the track area of the lane (around 8 board) and just making tiny moves. Practice playing other areas of the lane more.


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what exactly is transition?


Transition is change, Every time you roll a ball down the lane. It either removes oil or moves the oil down the lane or both. How much that change is depend on many factors, balls used, players etc.

Oil Transition: The Change You're Looking For


Note: Where he says 2-1 and 4-2 moves are "parallel" moves that should be called a soft angular move.

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Usually I have to miss 5 times or so before I move left questioning myself if I actually did everything right.


If your wasting 5 frames to decide to if you need to move, then you've already lost the game.

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But have any of you shot a good game and then shot a bad game and said what the hell happend?


Everybody has at some point.

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I guess it is bad to increase your ball speed on purpose?

No, It's bad to increase or decrease speed if that's not what is called for at the time.

Also many players when they try to increase speed do it improperly and wind up making the ball hook just that much more, because they start hitting up on the ball.

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I think that entire area was too dried up. (this is what inexperience gets you, bowling 1 league and only encountering this maybe once a year.)


You've only encountered a area of a lane that was too dried up "maybe" once year???

I'm willing to bet, it's been a lot more than that you just didn't realize it.

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Things should go off in your head, too much backend then make a drastic move not just a small one.


Yes making a big change and seeing what happens, a lot of the time is better than wasting frames making small changes trying to find a line.

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Drastic meaning more then just 1/2 board moves like I do all the time.


IMO most players who talk about making 1/2 boards adjustments are deluding themselves.

The majority of players don't have the consistency to make 1/2 board adjustments (with feet or target) useful (unless they've became Walter Ray).

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:45 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
IMO most players who talk about making 1/2 boards adjustments are deluding themselves.

The majority of players don't have the consistency to make 1/2 board adjustments (with feet or target) useful (unless they've became Walter Ray).



+100

AND you ain't nowhere near that my friend!


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:44 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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imagonman wrote:


+100

AND you ain't nowhere near that my friend!


Totally agree, and yet I have made 1/2 board moves. But hear me out.... I don't use 1/2 board moves to adjust to a reaction I saw, instead making 1/2 board moves in anticipation of future moves.

I would make 1/2 board moves every couple of frames with the end result being roughly 2 board adjustment over a game, usually the first. Especially on THS where the a 1/2 board move doesn't really affect the outcome too much assuming you are a good area of the lane. But by moving 2 boards over the course of the game I felt I was staying ahead of the transitions. Everything after the first game relies a lot on how others are attacking the lanes and equipment used. I could only do this once I felt comfortable with the shot on and expected adjustments I would need to make.

I have also had a little success doing something similar on lighter sport shots but my experience is limited on those. I have made 1/2 board adjustments every 2 balls on a lane trying to stay ahead.

I realize some may poopoo on my idea, but I have had success doing this.


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:50 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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As I've developed I learned to rely less on where exactly im standing on the lane and more about standing where im lining the shot up with my eyes. Imagining the shot happening, drawing the line and arc on the lane and making it happen. Bowl by feel. Less mind work, less calculation, less remembering, more intuition and feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:18 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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I have to give you a + on that post bowl1820 but have to do when I get back. 1/2 board moves with my feet work all the time. I will and probably won't ever make 1/2 board moves at the target.

I feel I was doing right playing 8 board. When I shot 259 I did pull 1 shot left a bit on accident and that is when I got that 9 and not a strike. It was going dead in the pocket and everything was going well. I don't ever make 1 board moves until I throw a shot and everything is correct and the ball completely misses the 3 pin and takes out the 1. When I am a little bit high in the pocket, 1/2 board moves left works. I usually do 4 1/2 board moves a night before I change where I am throwing at. To me a half board move is this. Lets say I start at board 25. I make sure the cetner of my shoe is over board 25. When I make a 1/2 board move left, I make sure the center of my shoe is on the line. Then the next 1/2 board move, my center of my shoe is on 24 etc.

Also most people can agree, the more you move left, the ball will usually carry less. I guess I was not thinking that day or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:19 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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44boyd wrote:
I didn't see anywhere you wrote where the ball was going off the pin deck. That's what makes the pros so good, they see the need to move, ball up or down while still striking.



I have to work on that Usually I don't pay attention to where the ball falls off the pin deck. I didn't do it one time I was bowling.

from bowl 1820 :"You've only encountered a area of a lane that was too dried up "maybe" once year???"

I have encounted dried up lanes but not lanes with that much backend. Usually the ball won't go down the lane far enough and that makes it dry, These had a ton of backend. There could be reasons. No one else bowling but us. I am not used to the storm match ball jumping on me at all. Usually it never hooks enough. I was left with a ball that was having too much backend and I didn't have faith in the ball. Not one time have I ever stood that far left and been able to use it but I probably could have if I would have just done it. When you have thrown what 100 games? with the same ball and never had that much backend would you trust it? It is an experience thing. You can't think about what happend in the past, what is happening now. YOu can see the ball having backend so now the ball has backend, use the ball like it is suppose to be used. I should have throught that to myself. It was a major lack of trust in the ball that got me I think. It has happend now I can look back on this if I experience it again and then see what I shouldn't do again.


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:32 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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krava wrote:
Also most people can agree, the more you move left, the ball will usually carry less. I guess I was not thinking that day or something.


What?

Please explain your rational on this....


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:37 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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krava wrote:
1/2 board moves with my feet work all the time.


At most IMO a 1/2 board move with your feet might have more of a psychological impact on your shot, Than the move itself actually had.

By thinking you "did" something (by moving the 1/2 board), your mind will cause your body to act differently during your approach & swing etc. These minute changes will have a impact on how you made your shot.

Now if it works for you fine, Just be careful about thinking the 1/2 moves was the only factor in how your shot changed.


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I feel I was doing right playing 8 board. When I shot 259 I did pull 1 shot left a bit on accident and that is when I got that 9 and not a strike. It was going dead in the pocket and everything was going well.


There's nothing wrong playing the track (8 board) area when the shot is there. But just because you shoot a high game there, doesn't mean the shot will always be there.

For example you shot that 259 and the vary next game you just barely moved off the 8 going to 9 and you only shot a 161. That shows the shot around the track area was gone,


Quote:
I don't ever make 1 board moves until I throw a shot and everything is correct and the ball completely misses the 3 pin and takes out the 1.


If your waiting for a perfect shot to decide to make adjustments, your throwing away frames. And waiting for that perfect shot to have a big miss (like completely missing the three pin) that's even worse.


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I usually do 4 1/2 board moves a night before I change where I am throwing at.


"4" 1/2 boards moves that = 2 boards. Okay so you wait until you've moved two boards with your feet before you ever change your target.

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Also most people can agree, the more you move left, the ball will usually carry less.


No, I don't think most people would agree with that.

If most people thought moving left would carry less, nobody would ever move left.

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:46 am Post Number: #11 Post
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I wonder if krava's assertion about moving left and diminishing carry was in reference to the breakpoint moving towards the center of the lane which would diminish angle of entry.
Less angle of entry generally equates to less carry.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:28 am Post Number: #12 Post
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kajmk wrote:
I wonder if krava's assertion about moving left and diminishing carry was in reference to the breakpoint moving towards the center of the lane which would diminish angle of entry.
Less angle of entry generally equates to less carry.

Thoughts?


Unlikely, But now that it's been suggested to him...............

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:32 am Post Number: #13 Post
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kajmk makes a point if that is true. Most people move left because they can't move right because it is too dry. If you can't move right you have no choice but to move left what other option? I don't think I have ever shot a 250+ game shooting over 3rd arrow.

You posted something about not moving the target until 2 boards left.
That is true, I wait until I move 2 boards left beore I change my target. When I hit 3 boards I move the target left 1. The only time this isn't the case is at the start. if I throw a ball and the 8 board is getting me brookln from the start. I will move 2 or 3 left and aim at 10. I haven't ever had to start league left of 10 board before. I have had to do so in practice when the lanes are broken down.

Usually at the start I throw the storm match standing on 20 and then hit 8 or over 8 out to 6 or whatever. Depending on how that reacts I do next. If I am just a tad bit high, I will move to 21 and hit 8. The next step would be go up to the storm timeless stand 22 hit 10 then 23 and 10. never had to move further left then that to start at any time. if I start left of that I won't be able to get the ball to the pocket and miss right every time. Too much speed not enough revs. If I slowed the ball down -2mph, I could probably get it to the pocket but it feels like throwing the ball like a baby and throwing it too soft to me.

For me I can hit the 8 board on any of this (standing 18-23), 10 board (22-28) If beyond that I have to move my target. Straight up 8 is me standing on 19 or 20.

1/2 board left with the feet should provide the ball going out 1/2" more at the arrows. I will see if I can video a shot where I need to move 1/2 board and show the difference.


Last edited by krava on Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:22 am Post Number: #14 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:

What?

Please explain your rational on this....



I believe that this depends on how you throw the ball. If you are a low rev player and move too far left, your ball will deflect when it hits the pocket because it will have to go further down then normal before it starts to hook and also hooks later. If you have a big hook to start with, moving left probably won't have any effect. Like Kamjk says. If I am playing outside I can get the ball to 6-8board before it starts to hook in. If I play inside, I might get it out to 12 before it starts hooking. I gues that puts my breakpoint left. I will go to Marshal lanes tomorrow if they have any oil on the lanes. I will video it and play probably 3rd arrow from the start and show you what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:32 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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kajmk wrote:
I wonder if krava's assertion about moving left and diminishing carry was in reference to the breakpoint moving towards the center of the lane which would diminish angle of entry.
Less angle of entry generally equates to less carry.

Thoughts?


Kajmk, this article might be of interest to you, I found it on the Above180 podcast site.

"Three Strike Lines to Success"

http://above180.com/2011/12/three-strike-lines-to-success/

In it he suggests that you can achieve a greater entry angle to the pocket when moving to a inside line.
(Though IMO that would depend on the bowlers style of play and where the breakpoint is.)

Here's a video showing the outside, track and inside lines like was shown in the diagram in the article.

Bowling Angle of Entry Demonstration - Coach Fred Borden and Ken Yokobosky

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:52 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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Good information by bowl1820, thanks for sharing. Absolutely agree with the need to develop ability to play different lines.

A few tidbits:
Who has won the most titles in PBA history?
What is his nickname?
What is his strong suit?

Remember in practice have objectives to grow or sharpen your skill set, pay no attention to the score.
The on lane targets can and probably should vary in width. Not even Walter Ray hits a 1 board target every time. If you can hear a sound when the ball hits it, all the better.

Some objectives will simply be connecting dots on the lane to a focal point (not getting to the pocket) by connecting the dots I mean a near target and one down the lane.
Doing that with your spare ball might be a good idea!!

In practice: if you have a ball that is wrong for the condition, try using it and hitting the pocket.

Play the "dot game" (Dave Ferraro ) hit the pocket while standing on every dot, shoot until you hit the pocket "x" times, move on.

Set up a game for every ball you hauled to the center. If 4 balls, you'll be bowling 4 games at the same time.

If you can place items on the lanes to target do so, many ways to do it.

If you dare, set up mini cones on the lane like Joe Ciccone.

Build a PVC straddle the lane targeting device. One with a curtain that keeps you from seeing the pins is great!

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:00 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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If you do not know, it is no shame, just learn it.
"Adjust too soon and maybe ruin one frame, adjust too late and ruin a game." Heard that first from coach Rolf Gauger.

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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:33 pm Post Number: #18 Post
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Quote:

The majority of players don't have the consistency to make 1/2 board adjustments (with feet or target) useful (unless they've became Walter Ray).


if you leave a 10 or 4 pin and know you threw it well, a 1/2 board adjustment changes something. that something can cause you to carry. I don't think its the fact that a bowler is that accurate or consistent, its just if you are lined up properly, you can make slight mistakes that will get you to the pocket still. a half board adjustment can make a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Transition? Bowling 100 pins difference between games.
 Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:16 pm Post Number: #19 Post
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Agreed. If you will accept that a 5 board move makes a difference and your approach is as repeatable as it should be, a 1/2 board will make 10% of the difference the 5 board move makes. And that can make a difference in carry. -- JohnP

Edit: The THS does tend to mask the difference small moves on the approach make. On a flat shot you will see them more clearly.


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