Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

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krava
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Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by krava »

I practiced today with what I usually use and the rocketship and then the c300. I have been tired of leaving 10 pins the last few weeks and I wanted to do something different. The other balls I have, have I would say a medium arc motion at the backend. The c300 has more of a hockey stick shape. I threw the c300 and missed right 2 boards and still hit the pocket and decided to use that. Anyway, using that I felt that my timeing was off on several shots and I was sometimes late with the ball (forcing it). I have been using 16lb balls the entire summer and most of the fall and never really used a 15 that much except for my spare ball. Has anyone done something simular and it threw you off a bit?

That also brings up a few points:
What is the best bowling ball shape when it comes to hitting the pocket.
#1 small slight arc (ball goes straight and then arcs)
#2 Medium arc (ball goes out a bit, then rolls and then starts to arc)
#3 Hockey Stick Shape (ball goes straight but at an angle and then starts to arc really hard)

I bowled with the hockey stick shape version and left a solid 8, and atleast 2 solid 10's the first game without even getting a double. 2nd game 6 in a row etc and then muiltiple in a row after that.

I normally don't ever use this ball because there is too much oil. I usually use the ball to move left and to get the ball to go out to the right and get the breakpoint a bit further down the lane and to the right more when the lanes are breaking down. I used this at a fresh THS with lighter volume of oil.

I think there might be some down sides to the hockey stick shape. To me the hockey stick shape is VERY speed related. Any kind of change of speed and really throw it off. It is hooking so agressively at the breakpoint and the ball is slower it can easly get too deep into the pocket (way too much angle) and leave a bad split like it did to me once. I thought I had a strike and then it just took off a few extra inches at the end (just once).

What I usually use is a timeless. It has a strong cover, but not much grit on it, it is also drilled as a control ball. The c300 is drilled for as much length as possible and extreme backend. (long and strong I think?). Do long and strong balls usually produce hockey stick shaped curves or what produces that? Does the hockey stick reaction cut out the 2nd ball motion? To me the ball goes straight and just flips, while the other balls sort of transitions and then starts to arc. The c300 is suppose to be asymetric also. Only asymetic long and strong balls do that shape or what creates it? I have only had 2 balls ever give me that shape before.

here is a discussion I found: http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/16 ... ckey-Stick" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by TomaHawk »

krava wrote:I
That also brings up a few points:
What is the best bowling ball shape when it comes to hitting the pocket.
#1 small slight arc (ball goes straight and then arcs)
#2 Medium arc (ball goes out a bit, then rolls and then starts to arc)
#3 Hockey Stick Shape (ball goes straight but at an angle and then starts to arc really hard)

All bowlers have different physical capabilities and psychological makeups. Understanding who you are and staying within the framework of those attributes will render the greatest amount of success.

Slight arc: Walter Ray Williams Jr.

Medium Arc: Pete Weber

Hockey Stick: EJ Tackett

All of the above are very successful, none of them roll the ball alike.

A person can waste a lot of time in trying to manufacture a game which is not totally within the framework of their personal capability. Bowling tricks people into thinking anything is possible. But, that's like saying, I'm going to hit a baseball 500ft, throw a baseball 100mph, or (for most of us) dunk a basketball.

Be who you are, forget about everyone else, and get good at what you do best.
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by NPMystikal24 »

I haven't posted in years but I can't take this anymore...

Krava (btw, what does your name stand for?),

PLEASE DO EVERYONE HERE A FAVOR....stop posting and start reading in order to educate yourself. A lot of your posts talk about others and how they don't understand bowling or shouldn't beat you because they aren't on your level. The more you talk, the more you show the whole community that you clearly don't respect the sport of bowling because of your lack of understanding. PLEASE STOP!!! Take a deep breath....scroll to the top of the screen, click on the little rectangle that has "Wiki" in yellow text....and don't post unless you have a question on the content in those articles.

P.S. - you've posted videos of yourself bowling as well...and your friend was wrong; you have a lot to work on. WE ALL HAVE A LOT TO WORK ON as none of us are sitting here writing on this chat after we've won a PBA Title!
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by elgavachon »

krava wrote:I practiced today with what I usually use and the rocketship and then the c300. I have been tired of leaving 10 pins the last few weeks and I wanted to do something different. The other balls I have, have I would say a medium arc motion at the backend. The c300 has more of a hockey stick shape. I threw the c300 and missed right 2 boards and still hit the pocket and decided to use that. Anyway, using that I felt that my timeing was off on several shots and I was sometimes late with the ball (forcing it). I have been using 16lb balls the entire summer and most of the fall and never really used a 15 that much except for my spare ball. Has anyone done something simular and it threw you off a bit?

That also brings up a few points:
What is the best bowling ball shape when it comes to hitting the pocket.
#1 small slight arc (ball goes straight and then arcs)
#2 Medium arc (ball goes out a bit, then rolls and then starts to arc)
#3 Hockey Stick Shape (ball goes straight but at an angle and then starts to arc really hard)

I bowled with the hockey stick shape version and left a solid 8, and atleast 2 solid 10's the first game without even getting a double. 2nd game 6 in a row etc and then muiltiple in a row after that.

I normally don't ever use this ball because there is too much oil. I usually use the ball to move left and to get the ball to go out to the right and get the breakpoint a bit further down the lane and to the right more when the lanes are breaking down. I used this at a fresh THS with lighter volume of oil.

I think there might be some down sides to the hockey stick shape. To me the hockey stick shape is VERY speed related. Any kind of change of speed and really throw it off. It is hooking so agressively at the breakpoint and the ball is slower it can easly get too deep into the pocket (way too much angle) and leave a bad split like it did to me once. I thought I had a strike and then it just took off a few extra inches at the end (just once).

What I usually use is a timeless. It has a strong cover, but not much grit on it, it is also drilled as a control ball. The c300 is drilled for as much length as possible and extreme backend. (long and strong I think?). Do long and strong balls usually produce hockey stick shaped curves or what produces that? Does the hockey stick reaction cut out the 2nd ball motion? To me the ball goes straight and just flips, while the other balls sort of transitions and then starts to arc. The c300 is suppose to be asymetric also. Only asymetic long and strong balls do that shape or what creates it? I have only had 2 balls ever give me that shape before.

here is a discussion I found: http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/16 ... ckey-Stick" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Love your enthusiasm krava. Mo had to tell me several times to "just relax and take a breath" when I first started posting. I like Tomahawk's answer in post #2.
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by MegaMav »

NPMystikal24 wrote:WE ALL HAVE A LOT TO WORK ON
No short cuts in this game.
The road to success is always under construction.
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by kajmk »

elgavachon
Love your enthusiasm krava. Mo had to tell me several times to "just relax and take a breath" when I first started posting. I like Tomahawk's answer in post #2.
Totally agree and I can really relate!

"The Fall of the Roman Empire."
Alec Guiness as Marcus Aurelius, James Mason as Timonedes.

Cutting to the chase -
Alec Guinness (Marcus Aurelius), James Mason (Timonides), Stephen Boyd (Livius)

Livius asks Timonides - How is Caesar?
Timonides replies - Well, in order to answer that question,
one must consider three aspects of the situation.
One, our emperor has been at the wars for 17 years
and lived under very difficult conditions.
Two, no one could ever describe Marcus Aurelius
as a robust man.

Marcus Aurelius has been listening all along unbeknownst to all.
He chimes in - There's a joke among the soldiers here about Timonides.
They say: Ask Timonides what day is it,
and he will lecture you on the history of the calendar.



Just call me Timonedes ...

Oh, one more thing (surprise).
Quite a while ago I was fortunate to attend a concert by Ray Davies, it was his Story Teller Tour, a blend of anecdotes, experience and song. Always liked Ray's phrasing and his way with words.

I found this brief YouTube with the text of one of his anecdotes.
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=A0cfmjvk6jE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ray Davies in his days fronting The Kinks
[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=eEep67akIn4[/youtube]

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=iPe-fuzeO98[/youtube]

"There but for fortune ... " Phil Ochs

Life is short folks ...
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by krava »

I should have slowed down today but got up threw it and didn't really concentrate much. I threw the ball pretty much as fast as I do in the video's taken. I did feel that I had most of the time a very smooth swing. I can tell when I have a smooth swing and when I tug or force it a bit. When I start tugging the ball, it is hard to go back to the smooth swing that I did have. I have to work on trying to figure out how to get back to that smooth swing and not tug. 2 tugs cost me 2 splits and alot of pins. My strike ball is 16lbs and the spare ball is 15lbs and it is hard for me to tell the difference between the 2 weights.
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by kajmk »

krava wrote:I should have slowed down today but got up threw it and didn't really concentrate much. I threw the ball pretty much as fast as I do in the video's taken. I did feel that I had most of the time a very smooth swing. I can tell when I have a smooth swing and when I tug or force it a bit. When I start tugging the ball, it is hard to go back to the smooth swing that I did have. I have to work on trying to figure out how to get back to that smooth swing and not tug. 2 tugs cost me 2 splits and alot of pins. My strike ball is 16lbs and the spare ball is 15lbs and it is hard for me to tell the difference between the 2 weights.
Thoughts.
Bring a written structured practice plan.
Always focus on process.
Try to practice with others. You can all be observers and reporters.
If you must bowl solo, pace yourself. Pretend you are bowling with people you see on another lane.
It's much easier to see or perceive the symptom than the root cause(s).
Invest in a local coach. Speak with other bowler's find out who gets results.
Note well, no coach will ever resonate with every student and vice versa.
I've worked with Coachs that were too notch, they coached all levels up to PBA from modern era, back to rubber balls. Despite their talent, there were always naysayers.

Without 1:1 help, you may spin your wheels unnecessarily and not improve.
Self medication can do more harm than help.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by mrbean »

i recently got all my balls to 14 pounds because 15 was too heavy and my 13 pound misfit was too light.
i would say using that misfit made me just pull it more because i had a higher back swing with it. and with a lighter ball it made me want to see how fast i could throw it! (22.8 was my highest, ho ho ho)
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by Arkansas »

I drilled a 12# Xeno this weekend. I'm coming back off of back surgery, so I wanted to ease back into it. I may drill a whole 12# arsenal. My timing didn't seem to be affected. Rev rate seemed higher subjectively, pin carry was good. I was pleasantly surprised.
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by TomaHawk »

Arkansas wrote:I drilled a 12# Xeno this weekend. I'm coming back off of back surgery, so I wanted to ease back into it. I may drill a whole 12# arsenal. My timing didn't seem to be affected. Rev rate seemed higher subjectively, pin carry was good. I was pleasantly surprised.
Not a bad idea. There is a fellow around here who, because of a bad back, has been using #12 for at least 15 years. (He still has a bad back).

His average: 220's
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Re: Using a lighter weight ball, Messes up timing?

Post by TonyPR »

As long as you let gravity guide your push away, you don't pull the ball up to the top of your backswing and/or don't fall into the temptation of pulling it down from the top of the backswing and instead you wait for it your timing should be the same. It is sometimes hard not to fall into that temptation of pulling down from the top of the backswing and that in fact will mess up timing. On a side note, my daughter currently rolls 12 lbs and I can't say enough good things about the Hammer Rebel Solid especially on sport patterns it is an awesome ball, gets into a roll nicely and hits hard. Very versatile too, my daughter is a speed dominant low revs player and another kid in the league who is a rev dominant two hander has also very good carry with a 12 lbs Rebel Solid.
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