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 Post subject: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:39 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I stumbled upon this looking for videos with Randy Stoughton. I have not watched it all yet, just a little fast forward.

It is over 62 minutes, looks good.

I plan on viewing this evening.

If you watch it or have watched it, rate it. You may have seen pieces of it already.
Bowling education is essential, it's the lifeblood of the sport, in my opinion.
Bring your popcorn ...





We all can't go to Kegel, but some people have posted some of their own sessions.
A lot can be learned by listening and watching, cause and effect, viewing side by sides, pro vs Joe, old me new me, compare and contrast.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=wkTlhzoTGmc


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Last edited by kajmk on Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:48 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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a little unrelated to the topic but, how do people get to bowl there. From what I see it cost $500 for 1 session there. Not to be rude but I see some of those probably under 18. So they have rich parents that give them that much just for a 1 day training? I want to go there myself but I am not going to pay that high of a price just for 1 session when I probably need 10 or 20.


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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:59 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Price is always a concern.
The point is not to try to sell you and say go there, the point is exposure to expertise and concepts.
Frankly unless you are an elite bowler, or are dripping in cash, it's like putting expensive paint and carpets in a place you are renting, not owning.

The point is, this is good information, things you can discuss with local coaches, buddies, the eyes behind your back. Get two serious bowlers to buddy up, study and help each other, not a bad concept.

It's a bit like bowling balls, your skill level and competitive level dictate what is practical.
If my ability to repeat accurate quality shots is poor, I should not be rolling 4 + balls into any center.

Just sayin

Hypothetical situation, some bowlers who went on tour, sold shares of themself, that would finance them, that could include things like coaching etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:16 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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krava wrote:
a little unrelated to the topic but, how do people get to bowl there. From what I see it cost $500 for 1 session there. Not to be rude but I see some of those probably under 18. So they have rich parents that give them that much just for a 1 day training? I want to go there myself but I am not going to pay that high of a price just for 1 session when I probably need 10 or 20.


1) Those young people you see are part of the Webber International Bowling program. That is there home house and Del is one of the coaches.
2) A four hour session might cost $500.00, but long after the sting from cost is gone...the education will remain.
3) You might get 10 lessons locally for $500.00...but there's a slim chance you'll get the same results.

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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:03 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Thanks Jim.
I had not yet watched the video, I'm assuming that at some they mentioned the Webber State relation.
And you are quite right about the rate. At 125.00 per hour, it is well worth it to the aspiring bowler. At least, that is the impression I get from watching and listening.
It is so refreshing to hear the coaches explain cause and effect.
One of the posts recently, used the term "trained instructors", I'm unaware of any such training per se.
Are you self taught, by that I mean by virtue of observation and maybe rubbing elbows with others?

I offered the videos because I feel it's good exposure to information and the opportunity to see things.

Krava is a very inquisitive person. Personally I like that very much, as it hopefully gives myself and others, opportunities to learn.
I'm thinking that as a teacher, you appreciate the inquisitive mind.
We have some very solid contributors on the forum who have given us valuable tools and assets that if billable would dwarf that 500.00 . Though, 1:1 with an elite bowling mind is priceless to a serious student.

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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:19 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Hey John, thanks for posting this video! Lately I've been thinking how I'm going to work on my game this summer, knowing that just bowling game after game will do little to nothing to improve my game. After watching this video, I now have a game plan and will be working on these great skill drills. Since Sunday night rates at my house ($5.00 cover, .25 cents and games) are so cheap, I have no excuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:06 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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pjape wrote:
Hey John, thanks for posting this video! Lately I've been thinking how I'm going to work on my game this summer, knowing that just bowling game after game will do little to nothing to improve my game. After watching this video, I now have a game plan and will be working on these great skill drills. Since Sunday night rates at my house ($5.00 cover, .25 cents and games) are so cheap, I have no excuse.



Just as an fyi, I've really been away from the game in many senses of the word for a long time.
Various reasons.

I recently started watching a scratch league here. I rubbed shoulders, bowled with quite a few of them in the past. Last night one of the guys came up an politely explained that some of the guys were wondering what my name was as they remembered the face, well a version of the face 15-20-30 years ago.
So we chatted and I asked one of the guys what pattern they put down and he said just a THS.
I knew it was not overly challenging for that level of skill. Stuart Williams PBA touring Pro bowls in the league and some other of the valleys elite. Stu can average 250+ on that pattern and has.
Getting to the point, there are 7-12 poster bowlers in that league from my observation. By that I mean, if you can look like them (I'm seeing rear only, but it tells a LOT) you stand an excellent chance of being a good bowler. Now we know the averages are inflated, but they are good and the ages vary so I would expect the younger ones to get even better if they want to, but they already have very good looking games. By that I mean, the things you see folks like Jim and Mo and Baker teach.
They are solid. An old coach of my Rolf Gauger was a stickler for form and I understand why.
While all elite bowlers are not cast out of the same mold, most do have as Don Johnson said "common denominators". Don studied as does Mark Baker, just what top performers do. Mark has his 10 HOF positions, Don called them "common denominators" both were/are quick to point out that there are always exceptions. It stand to reason though that the exceptions usually involve a need to compensate or offset at least one negative. As I watched some of the bowlers last night, I could see that despite their scores and averages, there were areas of concern.
One thing that all of the bowlers that stood out to me all have very good footwork.

Oh I was more of a scratch (as in bench warmer) than a scratch bowler ... :lol:

Cheers.

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Be a better you, train your body and mind.

If you've never read this short bit of wisdom, look it up on the web.
Desiderata ...

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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:09 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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JMerrell wrote:

1) Those young people you see are part of the Webber International Bowling program. That is there home house and Del is one of the coaches.
2) A four hour session might cost $500.00, but long after the sting from cost is gone...the education will remain.
3) You might get 10 lessons locally for $500.00...but there's a slim chance you'll get the same results.


Jim, very profound. I know people who will spend $500 on equipment every 3 or 4 months. This pattern of bowling behavior allows that they possess lots of great equipment but these same folks will balk at getting high level coaching. High level coaching trumps equipment of any sort and can last a lifetime. If one has the resources lessons at kegle, the ITRC or Turbo (there are many other coaches and locations) can add insights to your game that you most will never discover on their own.
Take the plunge if you can, you won't regret it.

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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:27 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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As long as people see no need to improve or have the desire to do so, they will not.
Many here know that the THS and other environmental tricks inflate scores and sometimes egos.
Now this is fine if they know or really do not care that the scoring is an illusion.
One problem is some of them will eventually bowl on something with less help and won't score and fail to realize the reason is the man in the mirror.

The term "Lane Dressing" as used by Dick Weber in his videos has a double meaning.
Think about it, the Emperors New Clothes were invisible. THS dresses bowlers in the Emperors New Clothes, without knowing it, if they take that suit to tournaments with tougher shots, they then find out what they are really wearing.

Cheers

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Be a better you, train your body and mind.

If you've never read this short bit of wisdom, look it up on the web.
Desiderata ...

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

John


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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:56 am Post Number: #10 Post
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Bumped up.
The Del Warren/Randy Stoughton video is worth a gander.

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Be a better you, train your body and mind.

If you've never read this short bit of wisdom, look it up on the web.
Desiderata ...

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

John


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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:11 am Post Number: #11 Post
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I've been to kegel for lessons 3 times always a great experiance. It is expensive to have a full day lesson but there are several options. I tend to bring a friend and get a group rate also as a returning customer you get a discount. They have workshops and clinics that vary in price and length. My buddy and i went to the mental game workshop with Dr. Dean hintz only $100 for all day half of wich was on lane it included a copy of his latested book and lunch. It was great richard shockley actually was taking the class with us.


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 Post subject: Re: Video, Del Warren, Randy Stoughton, Kegel
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:45 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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I like the Emperors New Clothes reference, it suits league bowlers well! :D

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    PAP: 3 1/2" right 1 1/2" up
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