General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

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TomaHawk
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General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by TomaHawk » July 24th, 2020, 2:36 am

44boyd wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 10:25 pm
Yes since restaurants, youth sports, bars, malls, Casinos, hotels etc can employ measures to keep people safe but bowling alleys can’t doesn’t have any logic.
With COVID cases soaring to 70,000+ daily, one would think we should have learned a lesson.

A very good friend owns a smaller bar / restaurant. He's a little bit of a health fanatic, fairly cautious about his own health and welfare. Heeding precautionary guidelines, he took an aggressive stance in terms of reopening as soon as restrictions were lifted. Within days, he contracted COVID-19. It only cost him 5 weeks in the hospital and a weight loss of 30lbs.

That's just a restaurant / bar. Bowling? A lot of people will be congregating in a cramped environment for a long period of time. That makes it considerably different than most venues. The bowling environment places it in a category that should be considered more consistent with professional sports arenas. It is obvious, professional sports are still struggling to figure out a way to keep the athletes and the fan base safe. Bowling is essentially the same.

It won't always be like that, it's just a matter of time and patience. Personally, I can't wait till a remedy is found.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Daryl » July 24th, 2020, 2:13 pm

TomaHawk wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 10:03 pm
Then, it would be fair to say, smoking should be allowed in bowling centers?
I am sorry. I am just some doctor with 33 years clinical experience. So let us take this one step at a time as MegaMav allows. What does smoking have to do with the Nationals being cancelled?
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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by boomer » July 24th, 2020, 3:31 pm

Daryl wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 2:13 pm
I am sorry. I am just some doctor with 33 years clinical experience. So let us take this one step at a time as MegaMav allows. What does smoking have to do with the Nationals being cancelled?
This was my question as well.

What state did your anecdote come from Tomahawk? If it's here in California, the timetable doesn't match up. It's only been two weeks since we've been re-locked-down and then we were semi-open for 3 and the 'Vid takes 5-14 days for symptoms to express . . . the numbers don't add up.


Here's my view (not that you asked):

1. Since it's a MASSIVE tournament, lasting for months, it has to be canceled. You can't just skip a bit of time, there's too much logistical involvement both on the tournament's side as well as on all of the teams for travel, etc.

2. With the vast amount of travel, it has to be canceled. Bringing people from all over to a central place, mixing them up, then sending them back out is not a responsible act.

3. It is unfortunate. It is the times, but it is unfortunate.

4. I had a screed about "we" - as in "we should have learned a lesson" - but I'll just leave it.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by TomaHawk » July 24th, 2020, 7:04 pm

Daryl wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 2:13 pm
I am sorry. I am just some doctor with 33 years clinical experience. So let us take this one step at a time as MegaMav allows. What does smoking have to do with the Nationals being cancelled?

It’s an innuendo, smoking is ok, don’t bring it indoors. It could have an adverse effect on others.

We’re located in Michigan, precisely, the Detroit area. We were one of the original “hot spots”. Bars were allowed to open on or around June 8th. That would meet the timeline, including the incubation period that was questioned.

I’m just reiterating what I know about COVID cases at a personal level. To date, we know 8 people who have died from the virus. I’m just relaying the message of how dangerous the disease is to some, not all. Bowling centers could be considered breeding ground for COVID-19. Not everyone is going to get it, who’s for playing Russian Roulette.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Daryl » July 27th, 2020, 3:18 pm

TomaHawk wrote:
July 24th, 2020, 7:04 pm

It’s an innuendo, smoking is ok, don’t bring it indoors. It could have an adverse effect on others.

We’re located in Michigan, precisely, the Detroit area. We were one of the original “hot spots”. Bars were allowed to open on or around June 8th. That would meet the timeline, including the incubation period that was questioned.

I’m just reiterating what I know about COVID cases at a personal level. To date, we know 8 people who have died from the virus. I’m just relaying the message of how dangerous the disease is to some, not all. Bowling centers could be considered breeding ground for COVID-19. Not everyone is going to get it, who’s for playing Russian Roulette.
I appreciate your reply and my condolences for your loses. Being a doctor practicing for 30 years I look at the science. So let's see how much you know about the disease called covid-19 caused by a virus named Sars-Cov -2. Let's follow the scientific protocols in place to prove a pandemic is caused by a viral particle.

First step in any pandemic is to do autopsies to find causes of death, which will be done in association with step two. Have they been done. Well the World Health Organization recommended that autopsies NOT be done! Well Italy's Health Ministry eventually defied this recommendation and did autopsies on many of their covid-19 registered deaths. Guess what they found? Not one death was from a virus called Sars-cov-2. Not one autopsy has been done using established scientific protocols to determine a death due to Sars-cov-2. In fact, well respect pathologist Dr. Stoian Alexov and his colleagues have announced that no one has died of a virus called Sars-cov-2. You can search for his article. This ties into the next step.

Second step in any pandemic is to identify the agent suspected of causing the illness. There is a specific scientific standard in place to determine this, and if not done no sound scientific evidence exists to prove said pandemic. This standard is called Koch's Postulates. It is the Gold Standard. You can look this up. So have these studies been done for Sars -cov-2. No they have not. There have been four that allegedly claimed to have found a virus, but they have admitted they did not follow Koch's protocols and Dr. Andrew Kaufman has reviewed them in detail and debunked them.

Step 3 to prove a pandemic would be to check the "All Cause Mortality" statistics. In other words, have more people died this year than any previous years. In a pandemic there would be a big spike in deaths as compared to previous years. Several doctors and scientist have done this such a Denis Rancourt, PhD. The statistics show that no increase in deaths have occurred this year. You can see his interviews on places like youtube for the details. It is interesting that if Sars-cov-2 is real than cancer and heart disease, to name a few, have been cured, because the death statistics for them have dropped significantly. So that confirms what many doctors and nurses are saying and observing. Death certificates are being changed to covid-19 when in fact the person died of something else. Again I have first hand knowledge of this.

I could go on with more science to prove no virus has been proven to exist, but the above basic steps MUST be in place first to prove a pandemic and doctors and scientists are trying to sound the alarm that they have not been done. Now I have first hand knowledge of a nurse in our local hospital who sent in 5 un-used covid-19 test kits and all 5 came back positive! I have heard this same situation many times over from my colleagues all over the world. And now there is a scandal with the Florida labs and their testing. Doctors who have investigated the tests being used to diagnose covid-19, such as Dr. Andrew Kaufman have shown these tests are not accurate and based on his analysis are 100% unreliable. All of these tests are meaningless. I could go into the science of these test to show why they are meaningless, but this reply is getting long enough. No wonder that the FDA has not certified these tests. The packaging for these tests clearly says they are not meant to be used for diagnostic purposes and in some cases say are for experimental use only!

So these are the scientific facts about the latest pandemic. There is certainly more I could go into, but the above basics prove the point. This is not opinion. This is establish science using the gold standards of science. They are indisputable. If any one says differently they are not following the established science. Unfortunately this is common in the medical profession. Opinion abounds.
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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by TomaHawk » July 27th, 2020, 11:46 pm

Thanks for the reply. The main reason I am pursuing this is because we all enjoy one common denominator, we love bowling. There is a certain responsibility that comes along with that. When you’re in this business you want what’s best for your customers. What better place to get into an in-depth, intellectual discussion than right here on BowlingChat.

It is important for all of us to know the exact reasoning behind the reluctance of government agencies to allow bowling centers to open. For me personally, I have a stacks of new ball releases piling up and people wanting to know of a plan for reopening. You’re basically saying, COVID-19 is being blown out of proportion.

The neighborhood I live in seems to have someone in different areas of the medical field living in every other house. When the pandemic initially surfaced, all of the medical personnel on our block were working around the clock shifts. One nurse said she had never seen anything like it, the hospital at maximum capacity, deaths were happening so frequently they had basically ran out of places to put the bodies. And, she works in one of the largest hospitals in Michigan. In my mind, that is not media sensationalism, but the harsh reality of what this virus has perpetrated on people all around the world.

Now, just today, we’ve learned that 11 Florida Marlins (professional baseball team) have tested positive for the virus. That falls right in line with the reasoning I set forth in a previous reply, bowling centers, like baseball stadiums, are coliseums.

With all that going on, you are suggesting, there is not much scientific evidence behind the presumed effects of COVID-19.

Is it all just bad luck?

We really need some answers so we can get back to bowling.....safely

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Daryl » July 28th, 2020, 2:33 pm

Great to hear your reply, and thank you. This is a great place to have a peaceful intellectual discussion, because we all come from different walks in life with different ideas from our various professions to help each other enjoy bowling the best we can. And I agree it is wise to be cautious when warranted. But when the science does not support the steps to ruin people's lively hood than those steps are unfounded. I could also go into the law showing that government has no authority to do what they did anyway, but my friend I just want to report the medical science. And I try to keep my opinions out as best I can. People can than formulate their own conclusions and ask why this or that when presented with established science for health concerns. But the medical science does not support what people are being told in the media. Even the CDC just announced that their numbers show we are below their alleged pandemic threshold, but the restrictions continue. Their numbers show a 99% drop in death rate if you can believe their numbers, and these numbers have been dropping every week for months. Yet the restriction continue.

Are some hospitals at peak capacity, sure. Every year they are, so this is not unique. Are there honest hearted healthcare professions that will follow orders from their superiors irregardless of the medical scientific facts and keep silent? More than you know? Are there corrupt medical professions in high official places. More than you know. Why would these people do this? I will not speculate because that gets into opinions. I will keep to the science for now.

Are there weird things going on? Yes. I know an emergency doctor out of New York was reporting on many many very unusual cases that were being labeled covid-19, but he found that they were suffering from something else. He could not understand what was going on because these people were suffering altitude sickness symptoms. He could not explain why and he was sounding the alarm to change treatment protocols because to treat these people on a ventilator would kill them, but he was reassigned, silenced, and the protocols remained unchanged. Many people have died just from these protocols. So yes there are strange things going on and there are theories as to why, but it has nothing to do with a new virus that has not been identified yet using established scientific protocols.

I know for a fact that many hospital show the opposite of what you described, and these are in big cities including mine. If all hospitals were to capacity as never before why were hospital staff being laid off? Why were hospital staff so bored that they started making youtube videos? I know for a fact that during the so called peak of this alleged pandemic that many hospitals in New York were vacant. I saw it. So the observational theories discussion can go on and on, but I just wanted to show the scientific facts regarding a new virus called Sars-cov-2 that is said to cause a disease coded as covid-19, and explain my reasoning as to why I thought it was not a good idea to cancel the Nationals. One must look at the basic scientific facts first than look at observations. So no I am not saying that covid-19 is being blown out of proportion. I am saying there is no scientific evidence to support it exists at all. Are people dying? Yes. But based on the established scientific evidence it is not a new disease called covid-19. And the yearly death rates are the same as in previous years for decades. Nothing new in death rate numbers. No pandemic according to the data.

Have 11 Florida Marlins really tested positive for an alleged virus called Sars-cov-2? How can they when no studies have proven the Sars-cov-2 virus exists. The tests being used do not even test for a virus, nor have they been approved to diagnose a disease? The PCR test and the Antibody test have both been proven to be meaningless. Even the FDA says they are unreliable. Yet this is all that is being used to prove some agent exists and is infecting people. Why are they even being used? The science does not support their use. You be the judge.

If you can bring to my attention the studies that used the steps I brought out in my last post showing the science has been updated, and refuted the doctors I referenced I would be happy to analyze them. I m not perfect. I missed things before and made corrections. But if the basics have not been done first than all of these other observations are mute. This is what science is all about. But it seems no one is interest in the basic science. I keep hearing what about this or what about that. Show me the basic science first than we can discuss the observations that may be linked to the science.

So as it stands I still do not think it was a good idea to cancel the National, and ruin the lives of many bowling center owners.
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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by TomaHawk » August 6th, 2020, 8:43 am

I'll say it again, USBC was absolutely correct in postponing or cancelling an event which would bring thousands of people from all across the country together. We could only imagine the impact it would have had if the Nationals became a "hot spot".

Science is one of three things, what it was (after the fact), what it is (diagnostic evaluation), what it will be (previously unknown information). We have been through a lot of changes in the bowling industry. Absolute science, in terms of product development has taken us from wooden bowling balls to the high performance equipment of today. Science is not always on the forefront of the future. To say something doesn't exist because there is no scientific proof, only means the research has not reached a final conclusion. The chemistry is there, science just hasn't figure it out yet.

What is our next best option then, observation. The threat of COVID-19 in humans is real. If a person contracts it, they could spread the disease. (I did not say, will spread the disease). One thing we know, there is no known cure. The amount of disinformation out there is cause for concern. Here is an article written by a real doctor:

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020/7/ ... e-lockdown

You be the judge

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Daryl » August 6th, 2020, 8:35 pm

I respect your opinion in this matter deeply TomaHawk. I respect the steps USBC has taken. I think they had no choice in the matter anyway. I have seen many of these doctors opinions as shown in the Deseret News yet the basic scientific protocols and questions are never referred to and answered. And I can show 100's if not 1000's of doctors like myself from around the world who after examining the scientific facts and data agree that this pandemic is a hoax.

Observation can be a good tool, but many times the wrong conclusions through observation are made. That is why observational studies are only one of the beginning steps to prove or disprove a theory. They are never used as a final outcome. Let us use bowling as an example. Take the bowler who leaves many, many ten pins in a three games series without changing equipment. His observations tell him that he is throwing the ball good, hitting his target consistently, making the right targeting adjustments, and hitting the pocket regularly. But he is not carrying that pesky ten pin. Without understanding the science he concludes through his observation that there is some thing wrong with the bowling center and not his choice of equipment. So he storms off complaining about the bowling center when in fact it is his choice of equipment that is the problem. The difference between observation and scientific understanding. Using observation without examining even the basic scientific protocols and data will make a pandemic seem real when it is not.

More and more evidence is coming out from doctors around the world to prove my stand. History will show the truth in time. Until that time peace to you my bowling brothers and sisters, and may bowling resume back to normal soon.
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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by jdrsuper » August 6th, 2020, 11:22 pm

Daryl,
Your logic is faulty and in I'll use simple logic to disprove what you been saying. You and I quote you saying that hundreds maybe thousands of doctors believe this pandemic is a hoax. Just because your not satisfied with the science used to define SARS COV2, doesn't mean it doesn't exit. I think you can agree that there is some pathogen causing this and there are over a hundred and fifty thousand deaths in the United States attributed to SARS COV2. Do you wear a mask when out in public, do you believe in social distancing, are you telling your patients this a hoax and therefore not to worry. I'll trust Dr Anthony Faucii and the National Institutes of Health and find as many doctors that you say it is a hoax that would disagree. If this was a hoax, how to you explain all the worldwide deaths from this hoax. I'm 80 years young and spent almost Thirty Seven years at at IBM and started bowling at sixteen and love the sport and although I'm nowhere near as good as I once was, I'm looking forward to when it is safe to bowl again and if masks and social distancing is required i"ll do it. I don't want to see bowling centers go out of business but I will not risk my life until I feel it is safe to resume. In answer to the original question, I say it would be a vary good decision.
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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by boomer » August 7th, 2020, 3:24 pm

Hi Joel

Unfortunately, you didn't use logic.

Daryl's entire argument is that the variables defining Covid aren't actually defined. Is there something causing something? Of course - there always is.

I don't necessarily agree with him, having read quite a few articles in Lancet and JAMA - I'm not a medical professional so I won't try to comment on the veracity of the actual science, just the logic (i.e. P->Q and foundational critical thinking), and I can't find any problems.

What I DO agree with Daryl in is regarding how political it has gotten. Our statements that we are trying to flatten the curve and that our efforts to flatten the curve have helped - none of these are provable and we've moved the goalposts a TON.

What do I mean they are not provable? Well, once we take an action, unless we have a similar control it is impossible to show what WOULD have happened. A: we kinda do have a control, not exactly similar but we can still use it, in Sweden. First world country, has several highly urban areas, etc. Not a perfect similar control, but probably close enough - they had zero lockdown, zero economic mandate, etc. and their curve has not only been flattened but it has gone negative and they are WAY down in incidents and deaths. So one could use this to compare - and it would come out badly for the lockdown, social distancing, etc. But otherwise, we can't really come to a logical scientific conclusion - we don't KNOW what would have happened had we not. We could compare to the (actually worse, percentage-wise) pandemic of 1968 in which we took almost no action (in fact, Woodstock. . .) but even that is difficult to compare with.

And how have we moved the goalposts? Well, the original goal was to flatten the curve SO AS NOT TO OVERWHELM our medical system - both so the medical systems could ramp up (they have) and so we wouldn't hit them all at once (aside from NYC, we haven't) but yet we are still being told that the CURVE is the most important thing. The curve was not the goal, it was a means. . . Here in Southern California we have a MASSIVE number of beds that are not being reported (we have two centers that are being used as isolation centers, but they still have only what we are calling "token" patients - one has EIGHT, the other has around 10 (hard to get firm numbers from the Feds) - neither is anywhere near capacity - but neither of these centers are being counted in our "available ICU beds" or even "available hospital beds" counts. . .) - but this doesn't matter. Once we started "flattening" the curve, and our capacity increased, the goalposts were moved to objectives that, in many cases, were unreachable.

Yes, there is a sickness. No Sweden didn't do anything and let it burn itself out (does that imply that we're only stretching out the pandemic?) Yes this is definitely being used for political purposes (go figure - politicians using a crisis for political gain.)

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by TomaHawk » August 7th, 2020, 9:17 pm

https://newsroom.uvahealth.com/2020/07/ ... in-sweden/

Sweden has only 10.23 million people in the whole country. It measures 450,295 sq. km. Let's compare that to New York's population which 8.399 million in an area of about 122,283 sq. km. That makes Sweden 268% larger than New York. Stating the obvious, the population is much denser in New York, a contributing factor to the disease. It seems that underlying health conditions and age are also huge contributing factors regardless of what means were taken to prevent the spread of the COVID-19, deaths too.

But, this is about the Nationals and bowling in general. JD, indirectly, raised an issue in his comment pertaining his to age. I could not find any information in regard to the participation level of individual age groups who bowl in the Nationals or leagues.

Maybe USBC knows something we don't? How many people bowl in the Nationals that are in the critical age group? Are bowlers prone to be more or less healthy? Could significant amounts of alcohol result in weakening the immune system, even if it's just for a short period of time?

For USBC to cancel the Nationals was a bold move. The USBC bowlers I know might not care if the environmental conditions meet any specific standard.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by krava » August 8th, 2020, 9:33 am

My mom said that this might be around until 2024 anyone seeing this being around that long? I am about to finish up the summer league. We had a 8-9 week league here. 2 people per lane. I have no idea what they are going to do about winter.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by boomer » August 10th, 2020, 2:57 pm

TomaHawk wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 9:17 pm
https://newsroom.uvahealth.com/2020/07/ ... in-sweden/

Sweden has only 10.23 million people in the whole country. It measures 450,295 sq. km. Let's compare that to New York's population which 8.399 million in an area of about 122,283 sq. km. That makes Sweden 268% larger than New York. Stating the obvious, the population is much denser in New York, a contributing factor to the disease. It seems that underlying health conditions and age are also huge contributing factors regardless of what means were taken to prevent the spread of the COVID-19, deaths too.
I didn't say it was perfect, but cherry picking our WORST example isn't robust either. Sweden is first world, has highly urban areas that use a high degree of mass transit (both of which are comparable to a CITY, by the way, NYC is a CITY not a country or even a state) as well as extremely rural areas.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by TomaHawk » August 10th, 2020, 5:54 pm

boomer wrote:
August 10th, 2020, 2:57 pm
I didn't say it was perfect, but cherry picking our WORST example isn't robust either. Sweden is first world, has highly urban areas that use a high degree of mass transit (both of which are comparable to a CITY, by the way, NYC is a CITY not a country or even a state) as well as extremely rural areas.
Your assessment has merit, but some sort of parallel had to be drawn. There are specific areas of the United States showing low volumes of COVID cases. Hot spots and low spots exist all across the country, state by state.

Michigan, for example, could essentially be divided into 4 different regions. The upper region has realized very few cases in comparison to the Detroit Metro area. I guess the argument would be, why should the upper area of Michigan be penalized for something that has a low percentage of COVID cases. (There is a rumor that I could not substantiate, bowling is back to business in the upper area of Michigan).

The question begs to asked, where is the line drawn? Restrict one area, open another? The prospect of people traveling from areas where there are a high number of incidents possibly carrying the virus, to a remote area, is somewhat disconcerting. If an outbreak were to occur, there are limited facilities which could care for the potential surge in needed hospital care. There are a lot of elderly people living in those areas too.

Right now, there is a lawsuit being presented by bowling centers located in Michigan. It's a catch 22 situation on how to approach the problem created by COVID. We'll see how that goes.

Meanwhile, my inventory is escalating as we speak. I guess you could say, I'm part of the catch 22. I want to go back, at what cost?

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Daryl » August 10th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Interesting discussion is it not my bowling brothers and sisters. It is amazing that one can argue about various observations (effects) and yet not one Randomized Control Trial (RCT) study can be referenced to prove SARS-CoV-2 exists and is causing any deaths labeled COVID-19 (cause). It is that simple. Science does not need to be complicated. Cause and effect. Every one likes to look at the causes - symptoms, and than develop conclusions, treatments based on symptoms and not the cause. That is why drugs do not fix anything, but only give short term releif . To find the cause is a different story and takes work, but is typically ignored and does not make much money. So simply show me a RCT study showing SARS-CoV-2 exists that did autopsies, isolated a virus, showed it infected healthy people using Dr. Koch's Postulates and woo lah you have a case. Until than it is all assumption, speculation, and opinion. Not science, or facts. How is that logic faulty?

As to Faucii one needs to exam his history a little. Robert F Kennedy, Jr Chairman of the Children's Health Defense is an attorney that has exposed Faucii and his fraud. Dr. Judy Mikovitz has first hand knowledge of Faucii's fraud since she worked for him. She has solid evidence and until one can tell me you reviewed it closely and proven it false with evidence to the contrary for yourself it shows Faucii to be a fraud. Also look at his clinical trial with regard to his drug remdesivir. Dr. Peter Briggin was the one doctor who exposed the fraud behind the research of Prozac. I just got a paper from him now exposing Faucii's fraud with regard to his favorite drug remdesivir that he is promoting as the treatment for the alleged Covid-19. Even the Lancet reported the early results from Faucii's trial that show the drug was making people sicker. After a while Faucii decide to cancel the trial before it was completed. I wonder why he has never published the bad results. Of course his company has said the drug was a success and wants it to be used for every Covid-19 patient. All without published facts. Yet you have clinical case after case showing the benefits of hydroxychloroquine used with zinc from doctors around the world showing great results for whatever respiratory problem people are dealing with. And Faucii tries to discredit these. You can get this report from Dr. Pam Popper. She has a youtube channel. So for those who want to put trust in Faucii be careful.

As to my patients. Yes I give them all of this research and science for them to make an informed decision. If they do not agree with it that is fine and I do not press the subject any further. They have freedom of choice in my office. A good 98% agree with me after seeing the science anyway. So all I ask is show me the science using established protocols that disprove my findings thus far. That's all. Is that so unreasonable, so illogical?

My opinion about Nationals being canceled remains, but I still respect the USBC's decision, and I understand it.
Right Handed Stats:
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by TomaHawk » August 10th, 2020, 7:47 pm

Daryl, could you provide some basis upon which the sudden rise in mortality rates among seniors can be attributed? We have a whole slew of customers that are in that age group frequenting our shop. I am concerned.

Daryl
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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Daryl » August 11th, 2020, 3:18 pm

Sure TomaHawk. Glade to help. I will show you what you can do to find the answer since it appears the facts I provide so far do not seem to have merit. So if I provide any data set I am sure it will just be questioned.

First one needs to determine if there is a rise in what is called the "All Cause Mortality" rate. You do this by checking your state's death rate data or the national data and compare it to previous years. In other words how many people over all categories have died this year compared to previous years. I am willing to bet that your state's over all death rate is no different when compared to previous years. Dr. Denis Rancourt published a study in April doing this for various states and countries, and he found no change in the death rates this year as compared to previous decades. In his study on page 5 he shows a chart of death rates for 122 cities, so your city may or may not be in the data set. But do not believe me. Check the study yourself, and search and compare your own state's All Cause Mortality rates. Dr. Rancourt's paper was entitled "Masks Don't Work A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy", and was published by Research Gate at researchgate.net. You can also check out the numerous interviews that he has given explaining his findings in more detail on youtube and other platforms. You could probably even write to him if you want.

I have laid out the scientific framework that is over a hundred years old that is needed to prove a pandemic. I am on the side of the issue that challenges the narrative in the main stream media using sound scientific principles. It is up to each person to dig for data and check it out since the narrative is being challenged. Dr. Pam Popper does daily videos on the data sets and facts against the alleged pandemic. She has a youtube channel and her website is wellnessforumhealth.com. So this is another source one can use to dig deeper into this issue and prove or disprove it personally. Once you have found this data set one can move onto the next steps in the search for truth.
Right Handed Stats:
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by TomaHawk » August 11th, 2020, 7:04 pm

Daryl, it seems that your answers are reliant on sources that subscribe to a certain belief. Having stated that, it would be quite easy to find at least two written articles to every "wellness" publication in regard to the problems associated with COVID-19. I don't really feel you answered the question I asked. This is not a political debate. It is an effort to establish safe interaction with our bowling customers.

I have read and watched released material by "wellness". Washing hands for example. Initially, "wellness" states there is little confirmed proof that washing hands has an effect on the transmission of a disease. Later in the article it says, paraphrasing, washing hands is effective....at preventing diarrhea. One of the symptoms associated with COVID-19 is diarrhea. Is that a coincidence? The same type of misinformation is perpetrated by "wellness" about masks, "only professional personnel should wear tight fitting facial protection". What???? We all know, at least we should, the higher the quality / fit of a mask, the more efficiently they will perform. Does a properly fit bowling ball afford a bowler more control?

The sudden rise in mortality can be directly or indirectly linked to COVID-19:

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2020/07/1 ... m-covid-19

But still, the overall effect of COVID creates a setting where even marginally health compromised individuals may experience sudden or lasting medical conditions. To disregard the potential is careless.

How does the bowling industry move forward, safely.....
Last edited by TomaHawk on August 12th, 2020, 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Glenn » August 11th, 2020, 7:41 pm

I am willing to bet that your state's over all death rate is no different when compared to previous years.
Bet your small change first ...
A comparison of the number of deaths from all causes in the U.S. during the first 17 weeks of 2020 shows a higher mortality than for the same period in any of the previous five years. While the death count was comparable to previous years in the first two months of 2020 , it increased rapidly in March and April (as the infections were rising). Comparisons of mortality are highly sensitive to how the data are gathered and presented. Therefore any claims based on the data must always be presented in the appropriate context. Since its outbreak in the U.S., COVID-19 has claimed more lives than diabetes, suicide, or stroke.
Last edited by Glenn on August 11th, 2020, 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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