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 Post subject: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:25 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Here is a lesson learned for people.

My partner and I missed bowling 2 weeks ago because he thought he lost his CC and had to deal with it. The team we went against bowled really well. Person 1 Averages like 162 and shot 177 average. Person 2 had a 235 or so average and I thought shot 713 (actually shot 699 but I didn't know that .I knew his last 2 games were 254 and 245. I looked at the +1 pin series on league secretary and made a mistake and didn't realize what he got until 3 hours after bowling.) So in my mind, I have to shoot over 254 and 245 the last games just to win and hopefully my team mate shoots 20 or so over his average to win. I was like the hell with it lets just forfeit because no way we can win. Not many times have I shot over 713 and I haven't had any practice lately. The woman on that other team was like "when are you going to make up your games" basically encouraging us to bowl knowing we didn't have much chance in hell of winning. I even told her to her face that we had no chance to win at all and I just wanted to give up. My partner didn't go for that too well and was more on the side of making it up but left it up to me. I am like well I don't like throwing $18 a way and I need to lower my average so we have a chance of winning something. So a long story short we settled on making this up the next day which was today.

My partner asked me about how much do we have make up to win. I told him if we both got our average we could win the 1st game but the other 2 games there is no way. He was more like lets see what happens. Also we were given lanes that had been bowled on and not fresh. (fresh lane 2 people bowled 3 games on it each). I am thinking ok I am probably going to end up with 550 or so series since I didn't do well on Wednesday and now the added complication of a messed up lane to start on.

Long story short my partner basically got his average every game +- 10 pins nothing higher or lower. I shot 256 the first game (2 spares all strikes), 202 2nd game (missed 10 pin), 300 last game for 758. So we should win 3/4 instead of loosing all 8. This is bowled when there was loud music on and also "normal people" bowling on my right side. Normal people means people that can't even get 100 that jump infront of you without caring and very noisy. I had 2 different sets of people on my right side the entire 3 games.

So the moral of the story is 2 things. #1 Don't urge your competition on if they don't want to bowl and want to give up. #2 Stuff can happen don't count yourself out. I counted my self out a few months ago when I had to deal with that "ringer" guy and counted myself out of winning any game on this and both times shot 300 at the last game.

I am finally "feeling" what is like to have the ball roll off my fingers the proper way. I can tell when I came out too early. Also I can tell if I came out sort of on top of the ball and when I "finger though the ball". This has taken almost a year to learn how to throw the ball the proper way.

Anyone else have stories where they "asked" the other team or wanted them to make it up? I am not talking about like "do you guys want to make up your games?" it is more "why don't you guys hurry up and make up your games". There is a difference in those 2 lines in how it comes out. one is a question and the other is like "go ahead why don't you try and beat what we shot".


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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:48 am Post Number: #2 Post
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Been lurking for months and actually having a hoot reading Krava's posts.
This one though, my mouth literally dropped to the floor.

Maybe I'm reading the post wrong...even though there were at least two
lets make this long story short mentions :) ....

but...

if my bowling partner ever came up to me and wanted to forfeit, just because
they had no chance to win, I'd be looking for a new partner.

As far as making games up, doesn't happen in our league. We are allowed to
pre bowl (which has to be approved), but no post bowling. If the minimum
number of bowlers aren't met, then its a forfeit.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:45 am Post Number: #3 Post
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Quote:
I need to lower my average so we have a chance of winning something.



Quote:
the hell with it lets just forfeit because no way we can win.



You really are something else, Krava.

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Rev Rate: Roughly 300
Ball Weight: 15lb
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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:28 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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I haven’t been in a league that allows post bowling since juniors.

Regardless, I stopped reading at “let’s forfeit, we can’t win” and “why not, I needed to lower my average so we can win something later.”

Congrats on whatever FIGJAM is in the rest of the post.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:45 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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jclguru wrote:
Been lurking for months and actually having a hoot reading Krava's posts.
This one though, my mouth literally dropped to the floor.

Maybe I'm reading the post wrong...even though there were at least two
lets make this long story short mentions :) ....

but...

if my bowling partner ever came up to me and wanted to forfeit, just because
they had no chance to win, I'd be looking for a new partner.

As far as making games up, doesn't happen in our league. We are allowed to
pre bowl (which has to be approved), but no post bowling. If the minimum
number of bowlers aren't met, then its a forfeit.

Doug


Bahshay wrote:
I haven’t been in a league that allows post bowling since juniors.

Regardless, I stopped reading at “let’s forfeit, we can’t win” and “why not, I needed to lower my average so we can win something later.”

Congrats on whatever FIGJAM is in the rest of the post.


I find it odd there are leagues that do not allow postponements when USBC clearly states leagues cannot outlaw them. I don't know if these leagues are sanctioned or not, but sanctioned leagues must allow post-bowling.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:15 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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spmcgivern wrote:



I find it odd there are leagues that do not allow postponements when USBC clearly states leagues cannot outlaw them. I don't know if these leagues are sanctioned or not, but sanctioned leagues must allow post-bowling.


Leagues rules can certainly prohibit post-bowling. Rule 111a says as much - Team pre/post bowling is permitted subject to league rules, and individual pre/post bowling is prohibited subject to league rules.

What rule 111 states is that pre/post bowling must be available in emergency situations. It’s a ticky tack difference, but there is a difference nonetheless. I’m sure we’ve all seen teams (particularly in recreational leagues) prebowl/postbowl because Walking Dead was premiering or the local team is in a championship game. The USBC rules do not protect those situations.

Even in emergency situations, the pre/post bowling is by request and subject to decision by a league committee.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:03 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Bahshay wrote:
Leagues rules can certainly prohibit post-bowling. Rule 111a says as much - Team pre/post bowling is permitted subject to league rules, and individual pre/post bowling is prohibited subject to league rules.

What rule 111 states is that pre/post bowling must be available in emergency situations. It’s a ticky tack difference, but there is a difference nonetheless. I’m sure we’ve all seen teams (particularly in recreational leagues) prebowl/postbowl because Walking Dead was premiering or the local team is in a championship game. The USBC rules do not protect those situations.

Even in emergency situations, the pre/post bowling is by request and subject to decision by a league committee.


Totally understand and agree pre/post bowling is taken advantage of. But the above comments insinuated post-bowling is not allowed under any circumstance.

Quote:
111b. Reason
A league cannot adopt a rule that would have the effect of not permitting any pre-bowling/
postponements. The league must grant a pre-bowl/postponement when the team is unable to field a
legal lineup for the following reasons:
1. Some of its bowlers are participating in the USBC Championships, state or local association
championship tournaments or attending an annual meeting.
2. There is sufficient cause.
3. An emergency situation.


Depending on the circumstance, and approval, post-bowling must be allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:36 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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spmcgivern wrote:

Depending on the circumstance, and approval, post-bowling must be allowed.


I can't tell if CC is meant to be credit card or concealed carry. A missing credit card is a call to the bank, no big deal. A missing handgun however...

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 Post subject: Re: Don't let Teams post bowl if they don't want to etc
 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:48 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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flibblesh you don't know the whole story.

#1 it is hard for me to get to the bowling alley due to no house right now.
#2 It is hard for the other guy to get to the bowling alley since he is young and has a young kid and
has to bring him along also.

It wasn't all forfeiting because there is no chance of a win. It is a big inconvience to go there. The way I saw it was this. We don't have the time to deal with a non winning situation and just let it go. We took 1st place last season (or half season). This is only a 8 week deal, so not that big of a deal.

It was a non winning situation in my eyes because #1 I have never shot 700 I don't think on used lanes before that I kept track of. #2 my partner doesn't do well with used lanes either and he would have to shoot over 20 pins a game over his average. (I don't think he has shot 60 over his average in 6-8 weeks).

The idea of the post wasn't about forfeiting. it was more about "letting sleeping dogs lie" or whatever the saying is.

I wouldn't get rid of my partner if he wanted to forfeit, I would want to know what the excuse was or if it was vaild. My partner left me several months in mid game. It was 2nd game he shot 3 balls. I got lucky and averaged 240+ the last 2 games and won them all.


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