Amount of oil and ball hook

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J_w73
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Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:53 am
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
Speed: 17 mph
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 45+
Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
Location: Northern California

Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by J_w73 »

I thought I remember seeing something from Kegel that stated at what volume a ball would read and start to hook. It was related to the oil graph on the right side of this picture.

I thought it was something that anything over 300 probably won't move.

Does anyone know where to find this information?

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... _graph.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
Book Average 210+
RobMautner
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Re: Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by RobMautner »

There's no set number. It is dependent on the ball being used and the speed and rev rate of the bowler.
J_w73
Member
Member
Posts: 915
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:53 am
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
Speed: 17 mph
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 45+
Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
Location: Northern California

Re: Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by J_w73 »

It was in reference to the green and red oil volume graph. I know there are variables, but I thought it was something like under 300 was the where a ball would see enough friction to read and see motion.
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
Book Average 210+
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bowl1820
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Re: Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by bowl1820 »

J_w73 wrote:It was in reference to the green and red oil volume graph. I know there are variables, but I thought it was something like under 300 was the where a ball would see enough friction to read and see motion.
In all the articles I've seen, I've never ran across anything that said a ball won't move/see friction on anything over 300 anything.

Also 300 what? Units? Microliters?

In regard to the composite graph remember it just shows how much oil is on that board, if you took all the oil on that board (from the end of the pattern back to the foul line) and stacked it up at the foul line.

It doesn't tell you how many "Units" of oil there is at any given point along that board.

Oil Pattern Graphs: KOSI Composite Graphs
http://www.kegel.net/wpa/2016/3/14/5bpi ... dxrp84n1ec


Now Rob M has said a few times that a modern ball won't see anything some where around 7-8 units of oil, But I've never found anything really that backs that up.

In the article "Breakdown and Carrydown – Then and Now"
http://www.kegel.net/wpa/breakdown-and- ... en-and-now

They say "Anyone want to bowl on a pattern with 40 units on the outsides? Of course you don’t - your ball will never hook!"

Going by that 40 units would stop a ball from hooking, but they are not saying thats the minimum that would stop it. So I assume the minimum amount of oil to stop a ball from hooking is less than that.

But that minimum probably would also depend on the ball surface texture used. A courser surface would require more oil to stop it than a smoother one. And of course the variables speed, revs etc would probably factor in also.

To go with that Here's some charts that compare surface texture to Units of oil
SurfacePrep1.jpg
SurfacePrep2.jpg
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"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
SomyP
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Re: Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by SomyP »

There is the two major factors of bowler and ball as well that will determine how much a ball will hook. A person who throws it slow with low revs, but has a super dull asymmetric ball drilled for max hook, depending on the pattern might see as much hook as a person who is high speed high revs using a symmetric ball drilled weak who's trying to tame their hook.

A high speed high rev player can see little to no hook even if throwing the strongest ball on the market. On the other hand a low speed, low rev player could see max hook throwing the strongest ball on the market. The difference between two players will be axis rotation, axis tilt, and who has the most traffic on their line to determine who will see more transition.
J_w73
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Posts: 915
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:53 am
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
Speed: 17 mph
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 45+
Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
Location: Northern California

Re: Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by J_w73 »

It was referring to whatever 300 (if that is what it was) is on the KOSI Composite Graphs. I'll have to keep looking and find the article. Of course the cover strength, surface, speed, RPM, and rotation is all going to play a part. I think it was referring a general rule of thumb for the average bowler speed and RPM with a current strong ball.
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
Book Average 210+
J_w73
Member
Member
Posts: 915
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:53 am
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" over 1/4" up
Speed: 17 mph
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 45+
Heavy Oil Ball: Idol, Show-off
Medium Oil Ball: Venom Shock, Rhodman,
Light Oil Ball: Phobia, White Hot Badger
Location: Northern California

Re: Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by J_w73 »

Found it on the bottom of one of the pattern sheets

KEGEL TIP - Once the amount of conditioner on the corners
(outsides) reaches 300 microliters, an oil pattern begins to become
“competitive”. Less than that amount the ball might see friction and
it could play on the easy side
Right Handed, 16-17 mph off hand (14 -15 mph on Qubica reading) ,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 17 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
Book Average 210+
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bowl1820
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Re: Amount of oil and ball hook

Post by bowl1820 »

Okay that's on this pattern sheet for the C- Taj Mahal pattern
C Taj Mahal.pdf
There are two tips

1-KEGEL TIP - Generally, the lower the ratios towards the end of the oil pattern, the less
guidance of the bowling ball and therefore, the more difficult the oil pattern may play.
The higher the ratios are towards the end of the oil pattern, the easier it may play.

2-KEGEL TIP - Once the amount of conditioner on the corners
(outsides) reaches 300 microliters, an oil pattern begins to become
“competitive”. Less than that amount the ball might see friction and
it could play on the easy side.
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"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
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