Too much revs?

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SomyP
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Too much revs?

Post by SomyP »

What would be considered too many revs? And I know too many is subjective. My cousin is a medium speed high rev guy. He's got low to average tilt I think it's 10* and 65 degrees of axis rotation. About 15.5-16 mph and has 425-450 rpms. Most of time he's got to use old beat up balls or lower end stuff to control the backends or everything jumps and goes through the face or brooklyn for him.

I on the other hand have a touch more speed at about 16.5-18 mph depends on how I'm playing the lanes and a touch less rev at 400 and close to his low of 425 when I need to get inside. My tilt is 10-15* and AR is 60* yet I can use anything and match up to any condition.

Belmonte and Robert Smith have rev rates in the 500+ rpm range and they bowl on sport conditions and for the most part keep a ball on line before having to loft the left gutter cap.

I am just curious as I was bowling city this weekend and team was at the alley where my ball driller operates. Sean my cousin got his grips replaced after we were done bowling and my ball driller made a couple of suggestions for him. He was able to watch him throw a few shots and saw how he created his rev rate with a severe bent elbow and shoveling the ball on the lane basically.

I see some guys say they can't use anything more than urethane as that would be way too much even with heavier volume oil patterns.

My question is should my cousin try to focus on getting more forward roll on the ball like I did to control backends and have a smoother reaction? Or should he stick with his current game which is having him average 205 and he a has a 300 to his credit; and just go with weaker reactive equipment to be more modern? Maybe something like a pitch black might fit in his arsenal as well?
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LabRat
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Re: Too much revs?

Post by LabRat »

Rev rate doesn't matter as such - it is your rev rate relative to your ball speed that matters. Your cousin would be well served by working on increasing his ball speed to better match his rev rate, which will do more to give him a repeatable and controllable reaction than equipment tweaks.
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MWhite
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Re: Too much revs?

Post by MWhite »

LabRat wrote:Rev rate doesn't matter as such - it is your rev rate relative to your ball speed that matters. Your cousin would be well served by working on increasing his ball speed to better match his rev rate, which will do more to give him a repeatable and controllable reaction than equipment tweaks.
There is a point where raw rev rate is a problem.

If you have an Axis of Rotation of say 45 degrees, and a high rev rate, the ball doesn't lose anything close to enough Axis of Rotation in the back ends.

Imagine a ball at normal speed reaching 9 board at 39 feet (end of pattern) then making a nasty snap left so hard it's in the gutter by 50 feet. Been there, done that.

I have to use a Storm Mix OOB on a THS just to get enough distance down the lane before it snaps towards the pins.

I'm working on reducing the A of R to give me the option of using a low end resin ball.

I've been able to get a resin ball down far enough on some of the animal patterns, but the snap angle is still too large to be effective.
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kajmk
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Re: Too much revs?

Post by kajmk »

Like many sports and endeavors in life, versatility is an asset.
In short, one should not roll or throw what one cannot control. The parallel that sticks out in my mind was Hall of Fame pitcher Sandy Koufax. In essence he "balled down", that is he took a bit off of the fast ball so that he could throw strikes.

Here is a real simple contrast scenario. If I stand at the foul line and toss a thumbless shot focal at the 10 pin or the next line, I can't generate enough speed, so the ball goes right, then left most likely into the left channel. This is even with a house ball. If I take revs off, and stand at the line I can get the ball down the lane further.

Way back when, all the adjustments were physical, those adjustments should be known to every serious bowler, because even if you had every bowling ball in the world, at some point, you will need some sort of physical adjustment. If one limits the changes only to equipment, one limits oneself!
Norm Duke is very versatile, Norm Duke has won over 30 titles. Most elite bowlers have a bag of tricks.

Having harped on the physical old school yarn, I'll remind you that the equipment revolution has gone beyond surface and weight blocks. Very clever and inventive folks such as Mo Pinel continue to develop ways to match ball layouts to bowler characteristics. Take a look at the wiki and BCU for specifics.

Given all of the above and things I've failed to mention, bowling has become increasing mental and knowledge based. In short there are more assets and options and thus we need to know more and more to do well at higher levels of competition.

That level of increased complexity has added some more fun and challenge to the sport as long as bowling balances offense with defense in the competitive environment and educates the bowling population so they realize that elite bowlers are elite, not because they score well, but how where and on what they score well (oil, pins, etc) That's important.

This is on the wiki
Ball Speed vs RevRate
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... evRate.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So yes, you can have too much and too little of just about any bowling metric except accuracy.
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Re: Too much revs?

Post by LabRat »

Again, the issue is not with the rev rate, it is with the ball speed/rev rate relationship. Discounting precession effects, the maximum entry angle is a function of ball speed, rg, rev rate and axis rotation. You have too little speed for your rev rate.
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SomyP
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Re: Too much revs?

Post by SomyP »

And I think that's his issue is mainly he is rev dominant. Yes he can get his speed up to about 17 but that's when he's forcing the shot and it's not clean off his hand. He can play up 10 or out when he has to and cuts his axis rotation down. His preferred line is inside. If there is oil he can score really well and hit it. We bowl on old neglected wood. The good thing is he is using hand me down balls that are 10 plus years old but he can score with them.

My ball driller recommended a Roto Grip Shout for him as it is a low reactive resin ball and will be more than enough ball on most except extreme conditions. I wish I had the issue of having too much hand for my own good. Well that only happens when I try to rip the cover off the ball and my approach goes from smooth and powerful to basically forced shotgun approach. Not a good thing at all.
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