Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

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KrisW77
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Positive Axis Point: 3 3/4 Right x 1 3/4 Up
Speed: 18 (@ Foul Line)
Rev Rate: 515
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom

Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by KrisW77 »

All my analysis is done from video, therefore I moved your post to the discussion forum.


Over the last few years I've been trying to calm down my approach (It's taken time as I'm bowling less than once week), and improve consistency and all the benefits that come with it.
However, I've completely lost the great reaction that I had, and I think this is down to increasing rotation and tilt.

Now, I don't know whether I should accept the new (& redrill everything accordingly) or work at getting something closer to the old way the ball used to roll.
I used to have
Ball Speed ~ 17.5mph
Revs ~ 450 RPM
Axis Tilt ~ 10*
Rotation ~ 35*
PAP 5 1/2 Right & 1/2 Up
which gave a Dual Angle Layout on a Storm Marvel as 50* x 6" x 40*

But it is now
Ball Speed ~ 18.5mph
Revs ~ 500 RPM
Axis Tilt ~ 20*
Rotation ~ 70*
PAP 4 Right & 7/8 Up
which gives a Dual Angle Layout on a Storm Marvel as 40* x 4 3/4" x 40*
And more often than not the ball is virtually straight.

Any advice on which way I should go would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much in advance.

Kris
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halfaclue
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Posts: 343
Joined: January 26th, 2011, 2:55 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 x 1/8 up
Speed: 19 off hand
Rev Rate: 405
Axis Tilt: 18
Axis Rotation: 65*
Heavy Oil Ball: REAX Version 2
Medium Oil Ball: Yeti Untamed
Light Oil Ball: Grease monkey
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Wake Forest, NC

Re: Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by halfaclue »

So you have added 10* of tilt, 45* of rotation, 1mph in speed, and only 50 addition revs. This all leads to more "speed."

When you add tilt and rotation the ball takes a little longer to go through all the phases of ball motion if your layouts aren't tuned for those numbers.

Suggestion before re-drilling, have you tried adding more surface to your current equipment? What it seems on paper is that you bowling balls are not slowing down in time to hook.

A video would be extremely helpful
Dan

Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
KrisW77
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Posts: 16
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Positive Axis Point: 3 3/4 Right x 1 3/4 Up
Speed: 18 (@ Foul Line)
Rev Rate: 515
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom

Re: Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by KrisW77 »

halfaclue wrote:So you have added 10* of tilt, 45* of rotation, 1mph in speed, and only 50 addition revs. This all leads to more "speed."

When you add tilt and rotation the ball takes a little longer to go through all the phases of ball motion if your layouts aren't tuned for those numbers.

Suggestion before re-drilling, have you tried adding more surface to your current equipment? What it seems on paper is that you bowling balls are not slowing down in time to hook.

A video would be extremely helpful
Thanks
I wasn't sure it all went the same way or if something cancelled another out, or if just one factor was the killer.

I've been given some balls second hand that I was planning on drilling up before taking any decent video, so was going to get them laid out according to Dual Angle Ratios - so was trying to decide which numbers to use.
If I go with old ones I reckon my Dual Angle Ratio would be around the 2.25: 1 area
But if I go with new ones the Dual Angle Ratio would be around the 1 : 1:25 area

I agree that changing the surface might help immediately with scores, but have always found that the surface reverts after a relatively small number of games, and I cant be dealing with regular trips to the Pro Shop - at least until I have some more money and start playing more that once a week and tournaments again. And I've always only considered changing the surface as part of fine tuning before an event.

I have a bit of video shot on my camera phone at 1/2 speed, but probably too large (16MB) to post here.
Is there any other way to share it with you?
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halfaclue
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Posts: 343
Joined: January 26th, 2011, 2:55 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 x 1/8 up
Speed: 19 off hand
Rev Rate: 405
Axis Tilt: 18
Axis Rotation: 65*
Heavy Oil Ball: REAX Version 2
Medium Oil Ball: Yeti Untamed
Light Oil Ball: Grease monkey
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Wake Forest, NC

Re: Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by halfaclue »

Upload to YouTube then post the link or use the YouTube button on the posting edits/creates

Surface should be used anytime you need reaction. If your surface isn't keeping long then maybe it's time to have your bowling equipment resurfaced and "revived" in a reviver oven.

If you purchased you own sanding pads and learn the proper way to sand on a spinner, some pro shops will allow you access to the spinner if you use your own pads. If you ask nicely. But the most it costs to touch up surface should be $5. And $5 once every two weeks or so is well worth quality scores now.
Dan

Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
KrisW77
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Posts: 16
Joined: March 25th, 2011, 11:36 pm
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Positive Axis Point: 3 3/4 Right x 1 3/4 Up
Speed: 18 (@ Foul Line)
Rev Rate: 515
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom

Re: Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by KrisW77 »

halfaclue wrote:Upload to YouTube then post the link or use the YouTube button on the posting edits/creates
Hopefully, I have uploaded video to the url below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed5MXs5UBQo

As I said before, it is at 1/2 speed.
It's not a good shot, but its not a really bad shot either.
It is about as close as I get nowadays to throwing it how I used to without the 15ft of loft I used to have.

Any thoughts?
MWhite
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Re: Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by MWhite »

KrisW77 wrote: Hopefully, I have uploaded video to the url below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed5MXs5UBQo

As I said before, it is at 1/2 speed.
It's not a good shot, but its not a really bad shot either.
It is about as close as I get nowadays to throwing it how I used to without the 15ft of loft I used to have.

Any thoughts?
Looks to me like your timing is started one step late, and that causes you to finish with very late timing.

On your 1st step of 5 steps, your body should move forward but the ball should not move relative to the body. As you move your right foot forward (your 2nd step) you should be pushing the ball down and forward, not up and forward as shown.

The ball should reach the bottom of the back swing while your weight in on your right foot, and your left foot is moving forward.
KrisW77
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Posts: 16
Joined: March 25th, 2011, 11:36 pm
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Positive Axis Point: 3 3/4 Right x 1 3/4 Up
Speed: 18 (@ Foul Line)
Rev Rate: 515
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom

Re: Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by KrisW77 »

MWhite wrote: Looks to me like your timing is started one step late, and that causes you to finish with very late timing.

On your 1st step of 5 steps, your body should move forward but the ball should not move relative to the body. As you move your right foot forward (your 2nd step) you should be pushing the ball down and forward, not up and forward as shown.

The ball should reach the bottom of the back swing while your weight in on your right foot, and your left foot is moving forward.
I know that's what convention says, and it is what I teach.
However, I've found that since I learnt to bowl hook back in the late 80's it's never really worked for me. I developed the style where my slide has come to complete stop before the ball reaches the down swing - probably due to being to being tall with long limbs.
At a seminar in the mid 90s, the guy taking it introduced me to starting with open shoulders (which for me only open wider during the approach) but having to have the shoulders closed/square to the foul line at the point of release. So as my shoulders don't really start to close until the end of the last step, it makes the rest of the approach look late.
Or at least that is the theory that I have!

Perhaps it only worked for me back then as I was bowling 30+ games a week, whereas now it's no more than 3.
Maybe once I've sorted out which Dual Angle ratio to go with, I'll get back to a more conventional approach - but it's going to take time to break 20 years of "late timing"

Do you have any opinion on what way to go with Dual Angle Ratio?

Kris
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halfaclue
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Posts: 343
Joined: January 26th, 2011, 2:55 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 x 1/8 up
Speed: 19 off hand
Rev Rate: 405
Axis Tilt: 18
Axis Rotation: 65*
Heavy Oil Ball: REAX Version 2
Medium Oil Ball: Yeti Untamed
Light Oil Ball: Grease monkey
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Wake Forest, NC

Re: Advice Needed. Calming Style has Affected Reaction

Post by halfaclue »

Please upload a video at full speed.

What I think I can decipher from the 1/2 speed video is:

Late timing causing balance issues at release.

Please try slow-slow-quick-quick-slide and allow the ball to fall on the second step.

If you allow this to "happen" without over exertion on your part you will see: better balance, better ball rotation, more natural ball speed, and an overall more consistent approach.
Dan

Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
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