Swing is messed up.

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coolrockindaddy
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Swing is messed up.

Post by coolrockindaddy »

I have been struggling for three years now. Average going down from 210 to rockbottom 174. I can't feel myself do it but I am told from a waist high set up, I am letting the ball drop to my right side instead of in front of me. This is causing my hand to turn counter-clockwise so my hand is on top of the ball in backswing and forward swing. I can't feel it and somehow I am a high tracker. This is driving me nuts and I realize a video would help a lot but I was hoping somebody has a drill or tip to stop doing this. I wonder if it is from slightly cupping and cocking my wrist in set up or not letting the weight of the ball be carried by fingers in setup or swing. Used to bowl Marshall Holman style and this was never a problem. But that's been years. Thanks in advance.
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Re: Swing is messed up.

Post by EricHartwell »

http://www.nextlevelbowling.com/index.p ... Itemid=177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a really good set of videos by Norm Duke. I realize its not Marshal Holman style but its a good example to help get your Swing back.

Another source of info is to search hinge method within bowlingchat. Lots of posts, video and examples for you to check out.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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kajmk
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Re: Swing is messed up.

Post by kajmk »

I'd advise you to submit a video. Without video evidence you may fall into the "6 blind men and the elephant" scenario. Or as Jim put it, throwing darts in a darkroom.

In light of that (pun intended), duck because I'm flinging a few darts.
This may get the ball rolling ...

If there were such a thing as a rule of things to check no matter what, checking the grip and fit would be a solid candidate. Grabbing, squeezing, tensing, can lead to bad habits and poor performance. It would not be a bad idea to do that at least once a year.

BTW counter-clockwise rotation for a rhb is a characteristic of a full roller and whether or not you actually get to a full roller track, the track will be high.

As mentioned, the Duke videos are very good. There are a lot of gold nuggets there.

I can't say for sure what the cause is. Remember though, that bowling is NOT a NATURAL sport as Tom Kouros chides us in 'Par Bowling, the Challenge" .
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... itten_Word" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
His book belongs in e-reader format, but then bookstores maintain bowling books do not sell well.

We have to train our body to do a few things that counterman our anatomy.
When you stand up and let your arms hang free, where to your palms face?

Since you mentioned Marshall Holman, you may recall his foot work was very much like walking on a tightrope. That kept the swing in close to the body, nice and tight and leveraged.
Look at the cybervision tapes on the wiki, note the views from the front, Marshall's eyes are over the swing-slot.

Cybervision tapes
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... sion_Tapes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John Jowdy was Marshall's Mentor and John had a drill he called the ring finger lead.
That technique can help nurture feeling of keeping the crease of your arm in line with the direction of your swing (hopefully along your target line)

Look for "Ring Finger Lead", below
Jowdy Lesson 6 Hand Position.jpg
Keeping on the topic of foot-work. Don't overlook the importance of foot-work in facilitating
a productive swing slot. The balance beam technique avoids the potential traffic jam between leg and ball. Since your body does not like getting bashed with the ball, you will either walk around the ball or flare the swing out or curl the knee in, the tight rope keeps it simpler and more consistent, or so I believe.

Footwork 5 step Graphics taken along ago from a post by Jim Merrell
4 step is meatball surgery via Snippet.
Five Step.JPG
or if you take 4 steps
Four Step cut and paste.JPG
More on the tootsies

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5639&hilit=crossover" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mo Pinel wrote:
To get technical, we have two types of steps. They are the "balance beam" step and the "cross over" step. A "balance beam" step is placing the foot directly in front of the previous step. If you cross back over after a balance beam step, it is called a crossover step.
Therefore, a five step approach for a right handers is as follows:
step (left foot) -normal step forward with the left foot
balance beam step (right foot)
short, quick step (left foot) - normal step forward with the left foot
short, quick balance beam step (right foot)
cross over slide step (left foot)
Back to drills

Remember Jowdy's "Ring Finger Lead"

A Set Up Drill
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A One Step Drill
The 1 step allows you to FOCUS and ISOLATE on ONE thing.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Foot Ball Drill
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note the tube on his thumb at the beginning.
The Tube is a great prop!

Sometimes using exaggeration can help.
Think that you want to roll a back up ball, in fact roll a few.
Later, back off to a straight ball.
Finally back to a hook ball.

One more thing.

The original Russian proverb (which pleasingly rhymes) is Доверяй, но проверяй (doveryai, no proveryai).

[youtube][/youtube]
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Last edited by kajmk on February 20th, 2013, 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
coolrockindaddy
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Re: Swing is messed up.

Post by coolrockindaddy »

Evidently, my hand is turning counter-clock wise in the backswing, not at release. I have already done some playing around in the mirror and realize all my problems started when I started holding the ball at waist height with elbow bent. Everything seems to fall in place when I have the ball about knee height and elbow straight ala Scroggins as I bowled like that for years. Muscle memory is a hard thing to break. Actually, when Duke is talking about wanting to crank it and he shows the bowler how to hold the ball and the left hand is actually in front of the ball used to be my normal setup. I can see now that I am going to have to go back to it to be the 200+ bowler I have always been. So be it! Thank you for your input.
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kajmk
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Re: Swing is messed up.

Post by kajmk »

coolrockindaddy

I have to ask out of curiosity, why did you make the change?
Did the deterioration of your game happen gradually?

I'm not trying to talk you into changing anything. As you said, it works for Scroggins, Holman, You, and others. One of the best bowlers I've been privileged to team up with has that type of style too. As the adage goes, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".
There are those that would say that "if it ain't broken, you have not looked enough." I stole that from Dave Tippett coach of NHL Phoenix (for now) Coyotes, but there's a lot more to integrating 25 or so men into a successful team. Be that as it may, nosy person that I am, I had to ask. :)

I'm curious about how things work and why or why not.

I don't have a book on anatomy or statistics, but just walking around looking at people walking around I noticed the "natural" position of their hands.

It seems to me that the arm wants to return to it's natural position, that is one thing we as bowlers have to deal with, add a heavy ball and the momentum if left unchecked is going to keep it moving until met with and offsetting force. Furthermore, that arm motion may be comfortable to you.
Starting from the dropped arm position, you've primed the pump a bit more insofar as your goal. How familiar are you with what you used to do as compared with the 3 year struggling period?
This is one very good reason why I and others before me espoused keeping a video archive. If I had a pitcher who went from an ACE to an Also ran, with no injuries, I would be looking at last years videos for clues. If that is a viable option for you, consider it.
It's good if your buddies are familiar enough with your game to note when they see you doing something different. A former teammate of mine's wife was not a bowler, but she knew his game. This guy was as steady as a rock, but we all have ebbs and flows. I remember a time or too when she would mention an observation of hers which resulted in getting him back on track.
Changes to a game are not always an open and shut case, e.g. change this one thing and everythings lollypops and roses.
Sometimes bowlers have offsetting negatives. As a whole, they cancel each other out resulting in success. Sort of like algebra, add 2 negative numbers and the result is positive.
The part of the brain that manages motor skills is tasked with the survival and well being of the body and that is how SOME subconscious countermeasures are born.
If you see enough bowlers, sometimes you will see some who's style seems bizarre, yet they will clean out your clock. They do what they do for a reason, it works, and they repeat it.
A better way to seek improvement is to enlist an instructor that has a proven track record of success with bowlers.

Something for you to ponder as an inexpensive tool
Mirror Mirror On The Wall Your Stance Say's It All.jpg
A drill to consider
Ingenious Simplicity of the 5 to 5 Drill.jpg
Something else to keep in the back of your mind as a drill to incorporate with your travails about the arm movement you releated.

This bit of advice from Gregg Helms is a keeper.

Greg's Bowling Chat ID is FitDocSr

Put a piece of white tape on your PAP. When you can at least make it face the left gutter (straight ball) you are behind it at release. Dont try to hook it (or dont try to turn your hand). Once you have that under control, then you can start adding turn with the hand.
I teach that you cant hook it properly until you can roll it straight properly. Also helps on spares.

_________________
Gregg Helms
Striking Results Pro Shops -NC
http://www.strikingresultsproshop.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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*The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Bowling & Billiards Corporation


p.s.
As John Jowdy and others have often mentioned
The Book Doesn't Bowl..jpg

p.p.s.
Perhaps an avatar to suit your signon id :)
Cool Rockin Daddy In The USA.JPG
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May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
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