Jim + others, looking for an opinion

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Bahshay
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Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by Bahshay »

All,

I'm looking for a little bit of advice in this case. I have developed decently strong but imperfect games both one and two handed. Jim has looked at both of these, as seen below:

My thread for my one handed shot: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My threads for my two handed shot: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5570" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strictly in terms of scoring, both have their upsides (more consistent footwork and accuracy one handed, more consistent release and better ball roll two handed) and their downsides (loft the crap out of it one handed, not used to adjusting with as many revs as I get two handed). I've switch back and forth since the summer with no real change in averages. My best series have been two handed, but my worst have been as well.

Recently, I've been bowling one handed and throwing fairly well. That said, I have days where I just can't clear my thumb at all, regardless of changes to tape, etc. Yesterday was one of those days, and after struggling through two AWFUL games of trying to clear my thumb, I decided I'd just take my thumb out of play for the last game and two hand it. I shot 277. That got me thinking that maybe I gave up on it a bit too soon.

I guess what I'm asking is: coaches, after watching me bowl, would you recommend me to throw one handed or two?
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
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kajmk
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Re: Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by kajmk »

Bahshay - I just did a quick read of the analysis that Jim did for your 1 handed game.
There is a wealth of information and good advice for you there. Take it to heart and implement his suggestions. Take his list with you and share it with a bowling buddy when you go to work on your game. Ask for honest feedback.


One such offering by Jim Merrell
Excuses, remember I don’t like them. If you have a good grip the ball will let go of you, not you deciding when to let go of it. Get some tape in that thumb hole and drop the ball behind the line, this will be easy to do as you are too far behind the line.

Capture.JPG
Time for you to visit your IBPSIA pro-shop?
Evaluate your grip, discuss proper use of tape, let him or her watch you release the ball.
Discuss grip pressure.
Gary Parsons guruU2 wrote in another thread:
[Slight] Finger pressure, [slight] finger pressure and just enough thumb pressure to feel the bird's heartbeat. That is all the grip one needs to hold a ball. One wants to feel the bird's heartbeat, not kill (by squeezing) the bird. Watch the tour? Ain't to manny bird killers make the show. Pressure, presure feel the birds heartbeat.

My words. How many times have I said that? 10,000 plus?
Wiki Reference - grip test (BUT DO VISIT AN IBPSIA PRO-SHOP)
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... on_Johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I also recommend you give Ron Cliftons two part article a read.
Ron Clifton wrote of "a high tech device that I use to help me train bowlers to learn the proper ball trajectory off of the hand. I call this device a Multifunctional Optimal Positioner"
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip28.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip29.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get all of the ducks in a row before worrying about revs and rpms.

Bowling with a curtain up on the lanes so you could not see the ball hit the pins would not hurt
;) Or a lane with NO pins
Shoot the 10 pin on the first ball while working on your game so that you do not become concerned with striking and scoring until you've smoothed out your game and fixed the items Jim detailed.
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May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
Bahshay
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Re: Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by Bahshay »

John,

Thank you for your reply. I always look forward to reading your responses in every post. However, I'm not positive we are on the same page here.

Your response was centered on how to practice my one handed game. in that respect, the information provided is certainly valuable (the mop drill especially, I've been trying to figure out how to practice releasing it earlier). However, I think it may have missed the point of my question. What I was attempting to get at was: I have two decently solid games (one handed and two), but both need work (which I'm certainly willing to put in, I try to practice often). While I'd eventually like to be able to do both very well, at this point it makes sense to perfect one (or attempt to, anyway). Which one should I put my valuable practice time into for now? Is one closer to correct than the other? Is one closer than the other in terms of reaching the next level, so to speak? Does one carry more potential than the other?

Now, it occurred to me while writing this that this may have been your way for suggesting that I stick with one handed. If so, thank you for your response and practice tips. If not, any thoughts? Your opinion is always desired, especially in this scenario (I know you've tried both ways as well).
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
distjamb
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Re: Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by distjamb »

Im no coach but i received these tips myself not too long ago and it really opened my eyes.

Over the summer i switched ball drillers,took all my stuff and had it re-done with a new fit and Vise it's. Best feeling grip i ever had but, i was having trouble clearing thumb. (due to a proper fitting thumb hole) About a month ago after strugging with it for awhile i went back to the shop and told him somthing was wrong with the fit, "i just cant clear the thumb" i told him. He took one look at my thumb and told me "Matt your squeezing the piss out of it." Of course i was in denial because i didnt feel that i was. He asked if i ever tried a wrist device. I explained that i had and actually had one, but i hated it. He told me how to set it up and told me to put it on next time i bowled. I did as instruced and was so amazed at the results. Averaged 246 for 6 games. I havnt hung up in the ball since i put it on. Thumb clears PERFECT. Callus has gone, and i can bowl 20 games with hardly any swelling of thumb or discomfort, or without messing with tape!

I guess to answer your question, stick with one handed , as accuracy means more than revs and power in my opinion. Even though you do not need a wrist device to strenthen wrist, it WILL make you not squeeze and you will get that next to the ankle perfect release and the loft should go away as well. Also try to target the dots instead of arrows, that should bring your eyes closer and help you get the ball down sooner.

Again im not a coach but just thought ide share some usefull tips given to me by some very smart people.
pap: 4 5/8" over -5/8" up
speed: 17-18mph off hand
rev rate: 320
axis rotation: 55*
axis tilt: 11-13*

years bowling: 6
league average: 213
high game: 300
high series: 792
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kellytehuna
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Re: Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by kellytehuna »

Personally, I think it's a matter of you deciding what kind of game you want to play, then taking strides toward that. Both games have their benefits. Both games have their draw backs. Decide which one you feel would serve you best in the long term and work toward that.
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glssmn2001
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Re: Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by glssmn2001 »

I took a quick glimpse of your videos back to back and I think I like your one hand game better. While you say you have problems with loft and grip, overall I think you look more comfortable that way. I am definitely no coach, have no desire to be either, but I would stick with the one handed game and put forth my efforts into feeling comfortable in the ball. See another pro shop and get their thoughts on your grip and how they my help you feel better in the ball and more secure throughout the swing. You may be surprised at the results and maybe not, but there is nothing to lose and much to gain. I myself went through 3 grip changes in a year, each making me feel better which in turn has me bowling the best I ever have. Remember though, the only decision/choice that matters is yours and when you do decide it must be whole-hearted or nothing will be gained
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kajmk
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Re: Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by kajmk »

Bahshay, I think that Kelly summed it up very well.

Understand that these are only my opinions and nowhere on Bowlings Mt Olympus will you find my name.

In a nutshell, I think that if you stick it out and develop your "conventional, one handed style", it will serve to make you a better bowler and also improve your two handed game if you also desire to develop it afterwards.

No where in the book does it say you can't ULTIMATELY do both, but as Kelly advised, it's best that you pick one based on your own soul searching.

How many times have you heard athletes that excelled recount how many times they heard that they could not make it. What you accomplish is very much dependent upon your will and your heart.

Choose, Commit, Dedicate, and Work at it.

"Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety nine percent perspiration." attributed to Thomas Edison.

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May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
Bahshay
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Re: Jim + others, looking for an opinion

Post by Bahshay »

All,

Though I've been slow to respond due to the holidays, I have certainly read all of the posts several times over. Thank you all for taking the time to review my videos and respond. I certainly wouldn't post this thread on any website besides this one.
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
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