Board index » Coaching Forums » Community Coaching




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:23 am Post Number: #1 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: August 2, 2011
Posts: 275
Reputation: 10
Reputation Power: 1
Why is the balance arm coached being forward? Whats the purpose of this?

_________________
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:19 am Post Number: #2 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3125
Reputation: 465
Reputation Power: 5
ballspoint wrote:
Why is the balance arm coached being forward? Whats the purpose of this?

Try throwing a baseball without using your body. just stand in one spot square shouldered and throw it with your throwing arm only.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:52 pm Post Number: #3 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: August 1, 2010
Posts: 1410
Location: Florence, Ky
Reputation: 1154
Reputation Power: 10
Balance arm forward thumb pointed downward.
1) I first saw this move made by Chris Barnes decades again.
2) As with many things happen in the coaching world, if it’s good for Chris Barnes then coaches should teach everyone to do it. :D
3) So, when I saw Chris doing this I needed a better understanding of what effect this had on his physical game.
4) After exhausting youtube with no success, the answer came from a physical therapist.
5) Extension of the arm forward with the thumb pointed downward puts the shoulder in the close-pack position.
5) The PT explained to me that this position puts the tendons and muscles of the shoulder in contraction. Thus, creating tension in that shoulder.
6) In most throwing sports the opposite arm and shoulder has an effect on the efficiency of the delivery.
7) We see this in the tennis serve, throwing a football and baseball and in delivering a bowling ball.
8) These motions are most efficient when the shoulders work vertically during execution.
9) In the first three sports mentioned above (overhand delivery) the throwing shoulder works up and over as the opposite shoulder moves downward.
10) In bowling (underhand delivery) the throwing shoulder should move downward and under as the opposite shoulder moves upward.
11) When the shoulders rotate horizontally during execution efficiency is lost.
12) Since, this is a bowling forum I will no direct my attention back to the physical game of bowling.
13) Often, I see bowlers rotate the shoulders horizontally during the downswing. This move typically positions the ball too far away from the ankle and outside the head at release. Inefficient!!!
14) Compensation with the arm/hand are then usually required to get the ball to the intended target.

Tension in the opposite shoulder aids in efficient transference of energy by the throwing hand to the object.

Just my 2 cents.

_________________
-JMerrell
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:22 pm Post Number: #4 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: August 2, 2011
Posts: 275
Reputation: 10
Reputation Power: 1
JMerrell wrote:
Balance arm forward thumb pointed downward.
1) I first saw this move made by Chris Barnes decades again.
2) As with many things happen in the coaching world, if it’s good for Chris Barnes then coaches should teach everyone to do it. :D
3) So, when I saw Chris doing this I needed a better understanding of what effect this had on his physical game.
4) After exhausting youtube with no success, the answer came from a physical therapist.
5) Extension of the arm forward with the thumb pointed downward puts the shoulder in the close-pack position.
5) The PT explained to me that this position puts the tendons and muscles of the shoulder in contraction. Thus, creating tension in that shoulder.
6) In most throwing sports the opposite arm and shoulder has an effect on the efficiency of the delivery.
7) We see this in the tennis serve, throwing a football and baseball and in delivering a bowling ball.
8) These motions are most efficient when the shoulders work vertically during execution.
9) In the first three sports mentioned above (overhand delivery) the throwing shoulder works up and over as the opposite shoulder moves downward.
10) In bowling (underhand delivery) the throwing shoulder should move downward and under as the opposite shoulder moves upward.
11) When the shoulders rotate horizontally during execution efficiency is lost.
12) Since, this is a bowling forum I will no direct my attention back to the physical game of bowling.
13) Often, I see bowlers rotate the shoulders horizontally during the downswing. This move typically positions the ball too far away from the ankle and outside the head at release. Inefficient!!!
14) Compensation with the arm/hand are then usually required to get the ball to the intended target.

Tension in the opposite shoulder aids in efficient transference of energy by the throwing hand to the object.

Just my 2 cents.


Thank you, more than 2 cents worth :) great explanation for my question. M

_________________
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:54 pm Post Number: #5 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: August 2, 2011
Posts: 275
Reputation: 10
Reputation Power: 1
Years before i got proper coaching, my balance arm was like when your walking/marching, in time with your steps. That was coached out to balance arm out to the side, now coach say put it out front.
My balance arm is a bit like A J Tacket, his balance arm goes slightly back as the ball goes forward, then as the ball is in the back swing, balance arm is forward, that to me his all about the balance arm doing its job. Is it really necessary for the balance arm to go forward at all? Not just to the side. Is there a specific purpose for the balance arm forward? Besides balance of course.

_________________
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:23 am Post Number: #6 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: August 1, 2010
Posts: 1410
Location: Florence, Ky
Reputation: 1154
Reputation Power: 10
Right handed bowler:
The scoring environment more than ever before requires playing the lane left to right. In days gone by of rubber and plastic balls straight worked in that environment. Therefore, we were taught to point are non-bowling arm straight out to the left and keep our shoulders parallel to the foul line. This kept our shoulders parallel to the foul line and coupled with a straight arm swing equated to accuracy.
I have seen many bowlers with their shoulders parallel with the foul line but left arm point towards the pins. This a lack of understanding of biomechanical efficiency in todays scoring environment. It’s not about the left arm being out in front, it’s getting the left shoulder out in front and lower than the right shoulder. See the photo of Michael Fagan.
So, if you can rotate your torso with the left shoulder lower than the right but point your arm put to the side go for it. But from that position I think you’ll find it too easy for the left shoulder to move back too soon resulting in the right shoulder moving ahead of the left shoulder resulting in pulled shots.
Michael’s left arm hanging vertically makes it easier to achieve a higher back swing position. Higher back swing more ball speed potential which in turn equals higher rev rate potential.
Mechanical efficiency requires that the left shoulder move forward and down as the right shoulder moves back and up. On the down swing the roles reverse as the left shoulder moves up as the right shoulder moves down and under. Goal being to maintain a head and ball position throughout the approach and release.

1) The left side offsets what is happening with the bowling side of the body.

From the top of the swing three things happen simultaneously:
1) Gravity starts to pull the ball down
2) The sliding foot moves forward
3) The non-bowling shoulder starts to square up to the line of play.

The black & white photo is Sam Coleman, one of the greatest ever during his era from my area of the world. So it's pretty safe to say his finish position is exactly what is desirable today.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
-JMerrell
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:15 am Post Number: #7 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: August 2, 2011
Posts: 275
Reputation: 10
Reputation Power: 1
JMerrell wrote:
Right handed bowler:
The scoring environment more than ever before requires playing the lane left to right. In days gone by of rubber and plastic balls straight worked in that environment. Therefore, we were taught to point are non-bowling arm straight out to the left and keep our shoulders parallel to the foul line. This kept our shoulders parallel to the foul line and coupled with a straight arm swing equated to accuracy.
I have seen many bowlers with their shoulders parallel with the foul line but left arm point towards the pins. This a lack of understanding of biomechanical efficiency in todays scoring environment. It’s not about the left arm being out in front, it’s getting the left shoulder out in front and lower than the right shoulder. See the photo of Michael Fagan.
So, if you can rotate your torso with the left shoulder lower than the right but point your arm put to the side go for it. But from that position I think you’ll find it too easy for the left shoulder to move back too soon resulting in the right shoulder moving ahead of the left shoulder resulting in pulled shots.
Michael’s left arm hanging vertically makes it easier to achieve a higher back swing position. Higher back swing more ball speed potential which in turn equals higher rev rate potential.
Mechanical efficiency requires that the left shoulder move forward and down as the right shoulder moves back and up. On the down swing the roles reverse as the left shoulder moves up as the right shoulder moves down and under. Goal being to maintain a head and ball position throughout the approach and release.

1) The left side offsets what is happening with the bowling side of the body.

From the top of the swing three things happen simultaneously:
1) Gravity starts to pull the ball down
2) The sliding foot moves forward
3) The non-bowling shoulder starts to square up to the line of play.

The black & white photo is Sam Coleman, one of the greatest ever during his era from my area of the world. So it's pretty safe to say his finish position is exactly what is desirable today.


Would just like to say, your replies are so informative and helpful. Thank you.

_________________
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:40 pm Post Number: #8 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 3130
Location: Sun City Arizona
Reputation: 612
Reputation Power: 7
As always, thanks so much for "Playing real good, for free"

Over the years, I've tried to read as much on this sport as I could lay my hands on.
Used to do that with a few other sports too.
I've perhaps 20-30 books, two iterations of USBC coaches manuals through and including Silver. HARD copies of Bowling This Month and other periodicals. Read these out of curiosity, I knew I was most likely not going to coach, as I lacked the natural eye.
I can honestly say, I would trade most of it just to watch and listen to Jim instruct bowler's.

Play on Maestro

_________________
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

The short poem Desiderata contains words of wisdom for us all.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ih-HTtMtwek
John


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:38 pm Post Number: #9 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4330
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 950
Reputation Power: 10
kajmk wrote:
I can honestly say, I would trade most of it just to watch and listen to Jim instruct bowler's.


Perhaps a video manual is in the future for Jim.
Hes always on the cutting edge and the "video word" is popular these days.
You do a great job for us and the sport of bowling Jim, many thanks to make up for those who havent.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Balance arm.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:20 pm Post Number: #10 Post
Offline
Certified Coach

Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 1169
Location: San Juan, PR
Reputation: 203
Reputation Power: 3
Jim is a great coach and also a great teacher. As passionate as they get! Hope you’re around for a long time Jim, like Dr Spock said “live long and prosper”.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

Board index » Coaching Forums » Community Coaching


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: