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 Post subject: ball facing out during the back swing
 Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:44 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Dear All

I hope that you are all fine and well and wishing you the best always.

Kindly note that do to many hours of work and some health issues I was a bit away from my usual practice and also when I did practice I stayed to my routine so I did not do anything extra, but one thing that was bugging me at all times was that I was not able to read, study or search for bowling information as I would have done, But ...

during the past week I had time to download and see the PBA tournaments and something different caught my eye and I thought to share it and point it out with you wonderful people.

And that was that I noticed that most of the PBA players during the start of their back swing their ball is either partial or completely facing out , that does not mean that from the back view it is not aligned with their head, it means that the fingers are pointing to the outside of the body, now from my point of view they where trying to be behind the ball as much as possible, TJ, Chris Barnes, sean Rash, marshal kent they were all doing it and by doing this they are finished at C1 to C3 section of the release (in front of their shoe and not next to their ankle "Please correct me if I am wrong").

now I am a person that has a hard time to face the ball outwards during the swing as I crank the ball but the down swing is a different story from the down swing until release it is very possible to maintain the position as you turn from crank to crook also you keep in your mind that you are trying to throw back up, I think the result is awesome.

I thank you for your kind attention and looking forward for any comments.

Best regards
HAKiani


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 Post subject: Re: ball facing out during the back swing
 Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:24 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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What your referring to is called "working the inside of the ball".

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 Post subject: Re: ball facing out during the back swing
 Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:08 am Post Number: #3 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
What your referring to is called "working the inside of the ball".


Dear Bowl1820

Thanx for the info but what I am stating here is that it is totally regarding the swing and not the release itself.

Ok lets say EJ Tackett, when you look at the swing it is way to the out side (right) and not at all aligned with the back of the head but during the back swing I remember as one of the coaches said is like trying to hit the back of right leg (for right handers) during step 4 to 5 and then it all cramps up until the release time then is like a spring it just opens up to that beautiful REV.

Now working inside of the ball covers these swings or having the ball faced out facilitates to work inside of the ball I have no Idea but from some of awesome pointers that I received here from the coaches I am trying to throw a back up ball and try to work my release from their which I have to say it has giving me a lot of new perspective on this matter.

Bur none the less I have tried the above swing with normal release that is and the following are what I came up with:

1- The open to square shoulder is an issue: if I keep my open shoulder then it is not easy or even possible to maintain that kind of swing for example Rayan Ciminelli he is already facing left and he can not swing the ball facing out then coming in his left leg is way outside (trailing leg) and he is almost throwing the ball on the right side of his face (he is lefty)

Now we have Chris Barnes, EJ Tackett they are more square during the finish or best yet would be TJ, faces the ball out during the swing and then during the back swing and finish he becomes some what square.

now I have tried both like Ciminelli and the result was that in fresh Oiled lane it is awesome but as soon as the lanes start to dry it will be very hard to get score.

but I tried the second part open to square shoulder and the ball facing out it was much more manageable much better control but one thing that was the high light was the ball rotation they are both different, the Ciminelli type the ball read the lane faster and had a continuous roll / hook a very vague break point but very good continuation (is more like a 45 degree slice).

The second system gave me a late read (more slide) distinctive break point and very strong back end more like Roll then Hook.

In any case this was my own experience I am open to suggestions and more information as always.

Best regards
HAKiani


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 Post subject: Re: ball facing out during the back swing
 Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:46 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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HAKiani, if you are not recording your experimentation, be sure to do so, vocals on the videos would be helpful.
Just a thought - You might want to create a matrix listing body part orientation through the approach and other pertinent data. The matrix gives check points.

Another thought, look for exceptions to Mark Baker's 10 ball of fame positions and try to figure out how the bowler's succeed.

The bowling approach is an equation, acts of compensation are like coupling 2 negatives to make a positive.

As possible aids to your research and lab experiments and observations.
textual annotations are contained within Mohamed Janahi's video (included on wiki coaching under ETBF). Among his comments are descriptions of what hand and finger position and pressures result in various roll characteristics.



Additionally, for several years, Bill Spigner has had an analysis column in Bowlers Journal.
Those articles are available on his website after a short time period.
This link is to his Bowlers Journal analysis articles over the years. I think that all of the bowler's you mentioned are covered in Bill's articles (granted the observations are frozen in time and people can change)
http://www.billspigner.com/articles

I'd also pay particular attention to the highly successful bowler's that are truly versatile.
Barnes and Duke come to mind. Words and phrases like :"comfort zone" and "favorite" can be red flags.

You will see some if not all of these bowlers in Dean Champ's videos available on the wiki
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ease_Video

I'd also recommend Mark Bakers DVD and The Brian Voss book "Bare Bones Bowling".

Kudos on your powers of observation and quest for understanding and sharing your findings.
Top coaches have learn by observation and experiment just like you are.

A Yogi Berra quote about learning comes to mind.

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