Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

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bowl1820
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Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

Post by bowl1820 » June 28th, 2017, 5:37 pm

It is said many that today carrydown is no longer a factor in ball reaction, do to the modern coverstocks and that oil depletion is the number one cause of poor ball reaction on the backend.

But there are many that say they have carrydown and that is affecting them.

Telling the difference between Carrydown & Depletion I believe hard for most people, because the affects on ball motion of the two appear vary similar.

So what are the main thing's that a player should watch for (in ball motion or lack there of) to really tell if it's one or the other?

What would be the general guide lines to tell a player to look for?
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

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Re: Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

Post by imagonman » June 28th, 2017, 10:01 pm

The old Slowinski 'Myth" article is flawed somewhat as well as this refutation below:

http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php? ... 9&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://bowler2bowler.wordpress.com/200 ... continued/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's why:

Slowinski testing is flawed in that he never took tapes past the end of the pattern. 1 tape @ 44ft. don't tell the full 'carrydown' story either way.
This James Goulding article is also flawed in that he sees a few positive numbers but only in the center of the lane between 14-20 bds. and does NOT take into account that these are better bowlers shooting full games and shooting SPARES w/ plastic balls???? @ 9 pins or right side spares that could account for any increase in those numbers??? They are exiting the pattern on 9 bd., 14-20 bds.@ 38ft. is a BIG miss for these players. So it isn't carrydown from 1st ball STRIKE line shots. ( I doubt they use plastic/urethane for strikes but who knows?) The conclusions drawn by both sides are inconclusive bcuz ALL facts & factors are unknown & untested! I.E. = FLAWED

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Re: Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

Post by bowl1820 » June 28th, 2017, 10:27 pm

imagonman wrote:The old Slowinski 'Myth" article is flawed somewhat as well as this refutation below:
Thank you for the post, but thats another discussion entirely. It doesnt address the question asked in the OP.

Which is what to look for in ball motion, to determine whether you have carrydown or depletion?
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

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Re: Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

Post by JMerrell » June 28th, 2017, 11:37 pm

As to what to look for? It's a little more complicated than a one line answer, sorry for the long post.

Disclamer: none of the following is based on scientific data......just my observations over many years.

I view depletion as a reduction of something; that something being oil in the case of the bowling environment.

Here's the simple explanantion:
Depletion of oil on the lane results in earlier reaction (ball could lose energy too soon....lose of down lane reaction).

Carry down of oil on the lane typically results in later ball reaction.

Now for the disertation:

Depletion of oil

Givens:
1) The ball is traveling at its fastest speed as it leaves the hand (facilitates skid).
2) Axis Rotation is at its greatest at release (facilitates skid).
3) During the balls path down the lane track flare increases exposing fresh cover stock (facilitates depletion of oil).

Axiom #1

Oil depletion occurs at a greater rate in the mid lane versus the head area in my humble opinion.

Reason being:
1) Ball speed and axis rotation are at their greatest during the first part of the lane.
2) Ball speed and axis rotation decrease in the mid lane as flare increases.
3) Track flare is a contributing factor to mid lane oil depletion.

Axiom #2

I had a great reaction then the heads starting hooking. Really?

Maybe not:

Depletion of oil in the mid lane moves shortens the skid zone and moves Hook Zone closer to the foul line.

What once was a good reaction we now see the ball over reacting down lane. (slide #2)

The move left (right handers) is not to find more head oil, but to get the ball into the fresh oil in the mid lane restoring our original ball reaction. (slide #3)

Carry down

Oil picked up on the balls surface in the mid lane is re-deposited on the lane after the ball leaves the end of the oil pattern. (slide # 6)

The additional oil past the end of the pattern reduces the traction between the ball and the lane surface. Less traction….less reaction.

Oil depletion and carry down similarities.

Excessive oil depletion in the mid lane can cause the ball to progress through the Skid and Hook Stage
prematurely. Turning rotational energy into translational energy too soon and the ball often hits flat.

Carry down moves the Hook Zone further down lane, reducing the balls chances of getting into the Roll Stage. Often resulting in the ball hitting flat.

Thus, similar effects on ball motion down lane.

General guidelines:

Move feet and maybe target left ………ball reaction restored………probably dealing with oil depletion.

Move feet and maybe target left ………ball reaction not restored………change to a weaker ball and deliver another ball on the same line. Ball reaction restored……...oil depletion.

Ball reaction not restored………. possibly carry down.

Carry down………move feet and target right of the original target to get around carry down. Sometimes, this move will require balling up to a stronger cover stock.

While this may seem like a lot to digest......once familar with the process.....it only takes several shots for me to make a decision what the athlete is dealing with....depletion or carry down.
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Re: Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

Post by bowl1820 » June 29th, 2017, 1:53 am

JMerrell wrote:As to what to look for? It's a little more complicated than a one line answer, sorry for the long post.
Thanks coach Merrell for the very thorough explanation as usual!! I've saved this to my file archive for future reference.
Last edited by bowl1820 on June 29th, 2017, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

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Re: Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

Post by bowl1820 » June 29th, 2017, 4:47 am

For those interested I converted Jmerrells post + the slides into a PDF if you want to save it.

added to wiki
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ok_for.pdf
Carrydown or Depletion, What to look for.pdf
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Last edited by bowl1820 on June 29th, 2017, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

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Re: Carrydown or Depletion? What to look for

Post by imagonman » June 29th, 2017, 7:09 pm

Coach Merrell said it best.

Key is knowing YOUR ball motion intimately! You know what it is supposed to look like at all phases down the lane & thru the pindeck. Any variation from that must be observed by YOU the bowler. If one is not sure which it is, CD or Burn , then one was NOT watching that ball closely enough. While the end results of either 'appear' similar, the HOW of getting there was not observed. Because the HOW of the 2 is different, it can be observed as coach Merrell stated. You can/will see the ball transition early or late only if one knows his own transition & what to look for.

As THE COACH, Fred Borden said over 30 yrs. ago "...........every & any motion a ball makes as it travels down lane must be seen & observed......only then can a proper adjustment be determined and applied.......'

We all 'look' but usually don't 'SEE'!

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