Board index » Coaching Forums » Community Coaching




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:14 am Post Number: #1 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 2, 2017
Posts: 68
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
Dear All Lovely coaches

I hope that you are all fine and well and wishing you the best.

Kindly note that it has been a long time since my last question but then again the smallest of change in bowling takes a lot of practice so I was working on it also knowing so many things can and will drive you craze!!!

lets get to the point:

I need to know how to bring the ball closer to my ankle before the release time, pretty much every one here would be afraid to hit their ankle with the ball swinging freely with noticeable speed coming down, (it hearts like a ******)

therefore I need to know if their is a drill in this regard.

Also is their a drill regarding sliding?? i slide very little but I do have the knee continuation but some how that "Big" slide and that "Big Flat spot" is what I am looking for.

I thank you all for your kind attention and looking forward to all of your guidance.

regards
HAKiani


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:20 pm Post Number: #2 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 2837
Location: Sun City Arizona
Reputation: 551
Reputation Power: 6
HAKian, first of all, one of my flaws is that I believe in teaching a person how to fish, not merely giving them a sandwich. In short, it's my desire to impart understanding, not rote learning. Granted, this is a cyber forum and no opportunity for instant feedback like a one to one coaching session in real life. The ETBF has some discussion of the biomechanics involved. That aspect is I think a way of not only turning on that lightbulb in a brain, but keeping that bulb ON. It is also a way to grow the sport, because some students will by their good nature and sportsmanship, share the knowledge and resources.

I'd like to suggest that you post a video of your approach as detailed on the wiki.
Virtually every coach uses video for a variety of reasons.

See http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... e_Coaching

The reason is that although you know how you want to look at the line, for some reason, you are not achieving that posture. A video will eliminate the guesswork.
In short, what piece or pieces of your bowling puzzle are missing or out of place.

The Kegel Teen Masters videos as posted on the wiki, do have drills and explanations.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ence_video

While it is very easy to see the premise and desired results, a major obstacle towards achieving them is self awareness of where and when your body is along the approach.

I'd also recommend the ETBF videos on the wiki. I will point out that the long video can be found in 3 parts on YouTube.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... hing_Video

If nothing else, post the video set.

Again, success is a product of every preceding action.
A drill that emphasizes the end, does not assure that things before that have been done correctly.

Don Johnson said, you can't finish right unless you start right. While there are exceptions, they are peculiar to the individual. Most people will achieve success if they adhere to best practices.

_________________
Comparison is the thief of joy.

http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html

"Democracy dies in darkness"
"An ever vigilant press is the guardian of a free society."
E-books are convenient, but easily changed or removed.
John


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:24 am Post Number: #3 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 2, 2017
Posts: 68
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
kajmk wrote:
HAKian, first of all, one of my flaws is that I believe in teaching a person how to fish, not merely giving them a sandwich. In short, it's my desire to impart understanding, not rote learning. Granted, this is a cyber forum and no opportunity for instant feedback like a one to one coaching session in real life. The ETBF has some discussion of the biomechanics involved. That aspect is I think a way of not only turning on that lightbulb in a brain, but keeping that bulb ON. It is also a way to grow the sport, because some students will by their good nature and sportsmanship, share the knowledge and resources.

I'd like to suggest that you post a video of your approach as detailed on the wiki.
Virtually every coach uses video for a variety of reasons.

See http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... e_Coaching

The reason is that although you know how you want to look at the line, for some reason, you are not achieving that posture. A video will eliminate the guesswork.
In short, what piece or pieces of your bowling puzzle are missing or out of place.

The Kegel Teen Masters videos as posted on the wiki, do have drills and explanations.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ence_video

While it is very easy to see the premise and desired results, a major obstacle towards achieving them is self awareness of where and when your body is along the approach.

I'd also recommend the ETBF videos on the wiki. I will point out that the long video can be found in 3 parts on YouTube.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... hing_Video

If nothing else, post the video set.

Again, success is a product of every preceding action.
A drill that emphasizes the end, does not assure that things before that have been done correctly.

Don Johnson said, you can't finish right unless you start right. While there are exceptions, they are peculiar to the individual. Most people will achieve success if they adhere to best practices.


Dear Kajmk

It is good to hear from you good points and thank you for it the ETBF was one of the many information that JMerrell provided me with and I am still using those information processing it and trying to implement them through out my practice, I will be going through some surgery in about 2 weeks from now so my practice has become very limited but as soon as I can I will post my video so as you said "the missing pieces could be identified".

I did check the link that you provided me from the wiki (bowling chat) but did not open I have to use another computer in order to get it open or find a VPN to do so.

Our resources are very limited and we lack drills very few of us are doing "actual practice" the rest are all involved with tournaments instead of building a strong foundation on their play style in order for them to achieve a much higher standards in the game.

In any case I thank you again for the information and please feel free to provide us with advice as we highly need them.

Best regards
HAKiani


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:50 pm Post Number: #4 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 2837
Location: Sun City Arizona
Reputation: 551
Reputation Power: 6
HAKiani, good luck with your surgery and best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery.
Where are you located? You might consider adding that to your profile.
Which links gave you problems, all or some?

The nice things about many drills is that many can be done anywhere there is space.
The caveat being each one itself is a link in a chain.
Props can be used in lieu of a ball. Of course, the differences between a ball and the prop can temper the effectiveness of the drill to an extent.
Coach Richard Schockley uses a lot of props in his videos (which are free, see Richard Schockley's virtual bowling Academy).
You will note that in the Footwork drill in the Kegel set, that first, the student executes without a ball and at a slow pace.
Given enough space in a home, one could do this drill in front of a mirror or set of glass doors (no bowling ball, but perhaps a prop that has the diameter of a ball like a paper or plastic plate, a plastic cylindrical container like a Clorox or Lysol wipes, if it has some weight, all the better)
The footwork is a big key as is mentioned by Onder, by Mark Baker on his video.
Ron Hoppe points out that in bowling, we have to walk by the ball twice, how and when we do it makes things easier or tougher.
Knowing what a forced swing versus a free swing, knowing the time duration is a big key.

Here is another drill:
Swing drill by way of Michelle Mullen (spelling), met her, was coached by her when she held a seminar at ASU.
You will need a nickel.
Place the nickel in the palm of your hand, keep the hand OPEN, place and swing it, do not lose the nickel.
You can not grab it. Centrifugal force will keep it on your hand, this can also foster good arm position as if you roll the forearm, the nickel will slide.

I used to wrap my ankle a bit "just in case" I did get too close. :oops:

I want to add that different Coachs resonate with different people in different ways.
No one has all the answers. Many resources are listed on the wiki.
Richard Schockley's videos, Ron Clifton's tips at bowl4fun are two good sources, both are good communicators.

I'd like to encourage you to be creative, look around you for items you can use as props.
Look at the Eileen's bowling buddy products, with some thought and creativity you can build your own or come up with similar or perhaps better ideas.
Chat with your bowling cohorts, together you may find solutions an so on.
"In unity, there is strength". Remember that ideas and concepts evolve, Edison did not make the lightbulb on try number one. Many thought that the idea of aircraft was absurd.
Don't fear failure but do fear not trying.

Take care.

_________________
Comparison is the thief of joy.

http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html

"Democracy dies in darkness"
"An ever vigilant press is the guardian of a free society."
E-books are convenient, but easily changed or removed.
John


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:25 am Post Number: #5 Post
Offline
Trusted Source
User avatar

Joined: August 13, 2009
Posts: 772
Location: Madison, WI
Reputation: 85
Reputation Power: 1
I use this one quite a bit when practicing.

Swing and Slide Drill.




Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:14 pm Post Number: #6 Post
Offline
Certified Coach

Joined: December 30, 2009
Posts: 96
Reputation: 19
Reputation Power: 1
Make sure your bowling shoulder is dropped.

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip40.htm

http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php? ... iew&id=229

_________________
None active - USBC Bronze level coach
Dick Ritger level 1 coach
2 300 games
1 800 series
High average 223
Coaching with pros in clinics since 2004


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:02 am Post Number: #7 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 2, 2017
Posts: 68
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
spr3wr wrote:


Dear Spr3wr

I hope that you are doing fine and well and wishing you the best.

First I thank you for your information and second thing is that this is what I have been doing which has been positive and as I mentioned above I will share the visual information as soon as I am able to do so.

1- during my 4th step to 5th step: my 4th step is always cross and I try to slid right in front of my 4th step.

2- keeping my shoulder dropped (most of the time working on it, as I do not wish to lose balance at the end, need to keep my balance arm thumb down).

3- one of the points is that I am 190cm in height and 115 Kg in weight so my sliding is not as much as wish it to be (trying to maintain the spine tilt and my height fixed after the 3rd step (the spine tilt from the beginning of the approach and height at the 3rd step until I finish),

problems are that some time my hand is not as close to my ankle as I wish it to be, also my hand starts to turn early instead of finishing it in from of my big toe!!!

what I learned from JMerrell, was to wait for the ball and also from another great coach was to pull down after the ball "just a little" after the hinge and if you feel that the ball is weight less that means that your swing is free if not that means that you are using force, so trying to keep all these elements in mind my main problem is turning early and then by far is keeping the ball close to my ankle.

I am sorry if this was a long reply but I thought that you should know where exactly I am pointing my finger at :D

I thank you all again for the information and as always I appreciated all of your comments.

Best regards
HAKiani


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:09 pm Post Number: #8 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 21, 2013
Posts: 726
Location: Central Florida
Reputation: 31
Reputation Power: 1
I find it isn't always the best thing to get the ball very close to your ankle all the time. for me it slows my ball speed some. great for medium-heavy oil IF you don't want to miss left. however, that is why it takes practice.

if you are consistent, being able to repeat shots is more desirable. I do drill keeping the ball close to my ankle though regularly. it does take some focus. I have never hit my ankle and I use an aid to train this.

its a cast shield for shins or arms. a couple straps and some velcro and I can hit my ankle all I want with no harm. I'll post a pic if you like.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:18 am Post Number: #9 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 2, 2017
Posts: 68
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
rrb6699 wrote:
I find it isn't always the best thing to get the ball very close to your ankle all the time. for me it slows my ball speed some. great for medium-heavy oil IF you don't want to miss left. however, that is why it takes practice.

if you are consistent, being able to repeat shots is more desirable. I do drill keeping the ball close to my ankle though regularly. it does take some focus. I have never hit my ankle and I use an aid to train this.

its a cast shield for shins or arms. a couple straps and some velcro and I can hit my ankle all I want with no harm. I'll post a pic if you like.


Dear rrb6699

Thank you for the information , I just totally forgot about the ball speed, yes it does effect mine as well.

One more thing that you brought up is "consistency" truly the name of the game, but I have a question in this regard as well.

* Should we work on consistency fist or after getting all the things right?

just to clarify: I stand on board 15 and release my ball on board 3 this is my drill which helps me play closer and tighter and also helps me do a constant shots, now just in general should a player first learn the correct execution from the start to finish and then go work on its consistence shots or should the player do that while fixing their other flaws??

For me as I mentioned I am doing it both together but sometimes Is productive some times is not.

Thank you again and looking forward to hear from you all.

Best regards
HAKiani


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:37 pm Post Number: #10 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 2837
Location: Sun City Arizona
Reputation: 551
Reputation Power: 6
Be sure to know what board you are finishing on. Are you consistently finishing on that board.
There is commentary on lay down point, slide, targeting within this thread.
There is also a mention of the carbon paper method of monitoring your lay down of the ball.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11228&hilit=Carbon

Cheers.

Happy Fathers day to all the Dads of the world.

_________________
Comparison is the thief of joy.

http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html

"Democracy dies in darkness"
"An ever vigilant press is the guardian of a free society."
E-books are convenient, but easily changed or removed.
John


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:57 pm Post Number: #11 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 21, 2013
Posts: 726
Location: Central Florida
Reputation: 31
Reputation Power: 1
Kiani wrote:
.

* Should we work on consistency fist or after getting all the things right?

now just in general should a player first learn the correct execution from the start to finish and then go work on its consistence shots or should the player do that while fixing their other flaws??
.

.
You have to find a way to develop consistency with the least amount of complicated thinking. Muscle memory plays a big role in this. I can tell you what works for me but that may vary from bowler to bowler.

The essential basics of being consistent are nice free easy swing in a straight path keeping your head still while focusing on your target. use your ARM ONLY to accelerate thru your release. this helps keep your head still. You'll be surprised at how often you hit your target

For me I drill a two-step approach. That is one step and the slide. This was inspired by some bowlers I know that bowl with two step approaches. I saw one of them throw 300 using the two step approach so I decided to do a drill with two steps.

I keep my chin over the ball and swing the ball freely. As I slide I accelerate through the shot at the end of my swing as I release it. Once you get the feel of your swing timing with a free swing you can add more steps if desired. keep in mind how the last 2 steps feel when you add more steps. you will have to find out when to start your swing fpr the last 2 steps to work out. (usually step 2 of a 5 step approach)

Use of video is a great aid in helping you see what you're doing. I like to line up the video with my swing plane to see how straight my swing is and how close I get the ball to my ankle. It would be ideal to have another camera to the boll side of your body (on the next approach over filming you from the side). However, that's not always possible to set up while you're bowling. If someone is with me I can get them to do it for me. Always surprising to me what I think my approach, hand position, etc.. feels like vs what I see on the video .

I recommend reviewing the video immediately after each shot so you can remember your thought processes during that shot. If you review it later I can guarantee that you won't remember everything about the shot that you're reviewing. It can help if you review immediately after the shot to remember the shot better later.

let us know how it goes and remember there are a lot of great coaches on this site willing to help out.

_________________
Tweenr-RH
300-(10) 290-(36) 280-(30)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
THS-226, Sport-208
Tilt: 15-17°, Ax Rot: ~65°, PAP: 4 7/16 over- 3/4up; Speed: 15.5mph Avg
Multi wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: how to get the ball closer to your ankle??
 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:42 pm Post Number: #12 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 2837
Location: Sun City Arizona
Reputation: 551
Reputation Power: 6
Another thought for your mosaic. Be aware of what you are doing with your rear foot as you get to the line.

Note he leads with the little toe, not the heal.



_________________
Comparison is the thief of joy.

http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html

"Democracy dies in darkness"
"An ever vigilant press is the guardian of a free society."
E-books are convenient, but easily changed or removed.
John


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

Board index » Coaching Forums » Community Coaching


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: