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 Post subject: The lay down point
 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:12 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Dear Coaches

I hope that you are all fine and well and wishing you all the best always.

I am back again with another question and it would be highly appreciated if you would provide me with more information:

The question is the Lay down point, is there a specific concept that we need to understand / look for / execute regarding the lane and its oil pattern for example do we have to loft the ball for certain patterns? do we have to release the ball from few inches of the foul line for the heavy oil lanes to get the ball into action earlier?

From what I have read and understood is that if we just put away all of the variables that would effect the Lay down point like bad spine tilt, bad footing and etc... still this point is not clear for me regarding the lay down point and how would that effect the final performance? are we to categorize and divide the front part of the lane if so what are the results and when to do what?

Surely all of us have tried different ways with different liens but that was regarding our own experiment and experience therefore i need to know that if there are specific points that if we need to know.

I thank you all again

regards
HAKiani


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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:01 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... House_Shot

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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:01 am Post Number: #3 Post
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JMerrell wrote:
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lane_Play_Strategy_for_the_Typical_House_Shot



Dear JMerrell

Like always simple but effective. thank you for the awesome and simple information.

My original question came up because I was reading a point regarding the release points (distance) from the foul line from a USBC source, which was not very clear for me, but from what I have understood (which was not much due to not being a complete article at all) was that they categorized the release distance from the foul line in regard of the short to a long oil pattern for example if it is to short you loft the ball, but if it is too long you release is at the foul line and so on, that is why I brought this subject here to see if there is such thing and if so can you share the information.

But in any case the above link was a good point regarding that all that I play at the moment are the house patterns, that is why I play from the board 20 and give or take 5 boards regarding the oil therefore in order for me to be able to play on all the boards during practice I start from board 15 and work it up to board 35 and even more just to see that if I could hit it right.

Thank you again and wishing you the best.

regards
HAKiani


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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:17 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Hello Kiani, about lofting, it is one of many adjustments you can do. With lofting basically what you are doing is making the lane shorter, the lane is 60 feet from the foul line to the head pin, if you loft 3' you are making the heads (part of the lane from the foul line to the arrows) shorter making the lane 57', this will help the ball go a bit longer and read later when the oil in the heads starts to go away. Lofting is a skill that not many average bowlers practice.


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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:25 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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TonyPR wrote:
Hello Kiani, about lofting, it is one of many adjustments you can do. With lofting basically what you are doing is making the lane shorter, the lane is 60 feet from the foul line to the head pin, if you loft 3' you are making the heads (part of the lane from the foul line to the arrows) shorter making the lane 57', this will help the ball go a bit longer and read later when the oil in the heads starts to go away. Lofting is a skill that not many average bowlers practice.


I'm not disagreeing with you, but there are many PBA Hall of Famers who never loft the ball. I remember watching Norm Duke at the US Open on the burn, and while there were a fair number of guys lofting the left gutter cap with their balls hitting the lane at the arrows, Duke was playing a small hook in between 15 and 20, and was not missing the pocket. I've also never seen PDW loft the ball. I guess I'm not a huge fan of lofting because I'm not physically strong, and whenever I try it, my accuracy goes to you-know-where.


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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:45 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Yea, I know what you mean, it's just one more trick in the bag. In my case I can adjust speed and axis rotation plus I am learning how to be consistent with different loft distances, can't adjust axis tilt at will to save my life. I believe the more adjustments one can do the more versatile one can be. In my experience I use my legs in conjunction with my arm to loft but it's more legs, I just release higher than my ankle.


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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:03 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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TonyPR wrote:
Yea, I know what you mean, it's just one more trick in the bag. In my case I can adjust speed and axis rotation plus I am learning how to be consistent with different loft distances, can't adjust axis tilt at will to save my life. I believe the more adjustments one can do the more versatile one can be. In my experience I use my legs in conjunction with my arm to loft but it's more legs, I just release higher than my ankle.


Tony, this post has some links that include varying axis tilt.
I'm guessing you know a lot if not all, but thought I'd mention it.

Some folks enlist the aid of wrist positioners for learning and training purposes.
I'm wondering if training with a light ball would shorten the learning curve ...

viewtopic.php?p=26829#p26829

Thoughts, comments??

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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:12 am Post Number: #8 Post
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tight thumb = more repeatable loft.
loose thumb = earlier release.

It works for me. loose thumb slows my speed down automatically since I have to find my limits which is easy to do. how? with a loose(r) thumb I'll drop the shot if I throw it too hard.

I do a lot by effectively taping the ball. once I get the correct feel its repeat, repeat.

try to practice with a loose thumb. you get very creative trying to generate speed with your legs in a hurry. especially dropping your body as you slide.

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 Post subject: Re: The lay down point
 Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:46 am Post Number: #9 Post
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rrb6699 wrote:
tight thumb = more repeatable loft.
loose thumb = earlier release.

It works for me. loose thumb slows my speed down automatically since I have to find my limits which is easy to do. how? with a loose(r) thumb I'll drop the shot if I throw it too hard.

I do a lot by effectively taping the ball. once I get the correct feel its repeat, repeat.

try to practice with a loose thumb. you get very creative trying to generate speed with your legs in a hurry. especially dropping your body as you slide.



Dear rrb6699

It is good to hear from you.

You would not believe what kind of bowling ball I am using and for how long :lol: (chainsaw massacre more than 6 or 7 years) the ball looks like an old warrior the finger inserts has been changed but never the thumb the interesting thing is that the thumb feels like marble very smooth but I need to first get my self a new ball and second re-do the inserts and re-check my hand span and etc...

one thing I noticed lately is that with a loser thumb hole you actually will have a much much harder time trying to stay behind the ball as you hand starts its release earlier, unless you go Kung-fu grip which is something different.

One question can't you do all the speed thingy and release with just the change positioning of the wrist (except lofting)??

I thank you again and looking forward to hear from you.

best regards
HAKiani


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