Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the left

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brood915
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Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the left

Post by brood915 »

Hello. I've been practicing DYDS recently, and I have been focusing on fixing my backswing problem (swinging behind my back). Since it is on the way to be fixed, I want to work on my release.. It seems like I keep overturning my ball to the left at the release. Is this because I dont clear my thumb or because I overturn my wrist?

Also, could you guys please tell me how to improve footwork and timing?

This is before I fixed my backswing:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


These are after I corrected my span for better grip + made my backswing a bit better:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Please feel free to comment on any other faulty movements. Thanks a lot in advance.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by TonyPR »

Hello, if you can please post a side view and if you can a release zoom, follow these guide lines:

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... e_Coaching" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From what I can see in the video, you are not using your balance arm. You need to do a "swim stroke" with your left thumb pointing down, this will help you get the ball more under your head at release. A good visualization could be to try to keep your ball under your head at all times during your swing and release. Need the side view video to evaluate timing.

Now about your release. Do you have an injury, physical impairment or too heavy ball? If not then you don't need a wrist device. When you release the ball your fingers are above the equator and to the right of the ball, that is a weak release position. If you are physically able to lose the wrist device you can practice doing release drills (no step) with a lighter ball so you can learn to release from under the equator and to the left. To do this cup your wrist and put the weight of the ball on your index finger.

The drill:
Stand at the foul line with your legs as if you were releasing the ball, make sure your balance arm is out thumb down, head above the ball, ball close to left ankle, and appropriate forward spine tilt and knee flex, these last two are necessary to have the ball by your ankle. Raise the ball a few inches from the lane, cup the wrist with the weight of the lighter ball on your index finger, do a short forward then back swing, don't force it, use gravity, you will be releasing the ball very slow. Release the ball while looking at your wrist and try to roll it backup without lofting, just rolling it. Forget about score, you will be learning to keep the ball under your head and your fingers to the left and under the equator at release.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by brood915 »

Thank you for the advice.
I have a very weak wrist. It seems like I cant help breaking my wrist in backswing if I dont wear a wrist brace. Do you think it is better to wear a simpler brace like " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if I really need to keep using braces?

Also, to keep my swing straight in line with my head, I have to push away about 10 boards inside of my target.. Is this even normal?.. I cant drop my ball straight if I push away in line with my shoulder.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by EricHartwell »

I'm not a coach, just a student of the game.

As Tony has mentioned getting a side view will really help the coaches here evaluate your mechanics.

I think part of your problem is you are standing in the wrong place.
You are releasing the ball on about the 4 board. Very close to the gutter and you are trying to steer it away from the gutter. Overcompensating so everything is going left.

Try standing in the middle of the lane, board 20. Look at the 2nd arrow, board 10.
Don't be afraid to throw it in the gutter. Move your feet further left until you do hit the gutter. Once you get to that point of putting them in the gutter you have moved your feet too far to the left. Adjust by moving your feet back to the right and make small adjustments with your feet to find the pocket.

When I was taught to bowl if I kept missing the pocket to the left, I was told move your feet to the left, still looking at the same target. Conversely if you miss the pocket to the right, move your feet right. These are 1 or 2 board adjustments as your accuracy improves.

Learn to roll a straight ball. Keep your elbow close to your body. This will help teach you to stay behind the ball and get away from releasing it from the side of the ball.
Then to hook the ball you move your fingers across the back of the ball to add rotation and get the ball to hook. It is a small movement with your hand not your whole arm. It looks to me like you are trying too hard to make the ball hook.

Here is an interesting link for lane play strategy.....

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... House_Shot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by TonyPR »

If you have no injury or physical condition you can strengthen your wrist with some dumbells, many people break the wrist at the top of the backswing, look at Mike Fagan for example, the trick to getting under the ball just before the downswing is to use gravity by not pulling the ball down, when the ball is going down with gravity unassisted by you it will feel like it weights next to nothing, try to feel when the ball reaches the top of the backswing there's a moment when it's not going up anymore but it still not going down. That "zero gravity" moment is when you put your hand under it, if you pull it down you will feel the weight of the ball more, think: "we bowl with our legs, not our arm". A wrist device will not let you do the cup uncup movement at release. If you don't wish to learn the modern release it's ok to use a brace but your power will be limited, I assumed you wanted to learn the modern release because that is what Slowinski teaches and since you are trying to develop DYDS that's what I thought.

About getting your head over the ball, you can practice in front of a mirror without a ball. Tape a straight line on the floor and use it as reference to align the ball on your "hinge" (not pushaway). When you cross your right foot in front of your left on your hinge, at the same time tuck the elbow in and remove the left hand putting the weight of the ball on your index finger, think "get the right hip and body out of the ball's path".

Have you seen the following video:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eric, good observation on the targeting and alignment, I overlooked that part.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by brood915 »

EricHartwell wrote: Learn to roll a straight ball. Keep your elbow close to your body. This will help teach you to stay behind the ball and get away from releasing it from the side of the ball.
Then to hook the ball you move your fingers across the back of the ball to add rotation and get the ball to hook. It is a small movement with your hand not your whole arm. It looks to me like you are trying too hard to make the ball hook.t

Thanks a bunch. By "keep your elbow close to your body", do you mean moving my arm towards my body in downswing? I tried this in front of mirror, and I see that my hand rotates towards the inside of the ball when I move my elbow into my hip.

TonyPR wrote:
Have you seen the following video:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes. Ive seen it a lot of times. But I cant really copy anything out of that vid.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by EricHartwell »

brood915 wrote:Thanks a bunch. By "keep your elbow close to your body", do you mean moving my arm towards my body in downswing? I tried this in front of mirror, and I see that my hand rotates towards the inside of the ball when I move my elbow into my hip.
Yes, keep your arm closer to your body. Don't let the elbow fly out trying to get around the ball as you release it.
The hand on the inside of the ball is what is being called the modern bowling release.
Working the inside of the ball is another phrase that is being used.

Give these phrases a search on google to research it further
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by brood915 »

EricHartwell wrote: Yes, keep your arm closer to your body. Don't let the elbow fly out trying to get around the ball as you release it.
The hand on the inside of the ball is what is being called the modern bowling release.
Working the inside of the ball is another phrase that is being used.

Give these phrases a search on google to research it further

Thank you. But if I force my arm towards my body in downswing, how can it be "freeswing"? It's very counterintuitive for me.. Should I hold the ball in stance in my index finger?
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by EricHartwell »

Gravity should keep your arm closer to you body. The problem is you are forcing you arm out and bending your elbow to try and get around the ball. Don't bend your elbow.

Try this, in your finishing position just swing the ball 2 times without letting go. On the third swing let it go without trying to hook the ball. No forcing, just a free swing. You will find that the ball will probably hook some, just not as much as you might like.

Hooking the ball is easier then rolling it straight. It is very difficult to roll a ball with zero rotation.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by brood915 »

EricHartwell wrote:Gravity should keep your arm closer to you body. The problem is you are forcing you arm out and bending your elbow to try and get around the ball. Don't bend your elbow.

Try this, in your finishing position just swing the ball 2 times without letting go. On the third swing let it go without trying to hook the ball. No forcing, just a free swing. You will find that the ball will probably hook some, just not as much as you might like.

Hooking the ball is easier then rolling it straight. It is very difficult to roll a ball with zero rotation.
Hm thank you.
How's my backswing? Is it controlled as well?
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by TonyPR »

You say you are practicing DYDS, here's the PDF:

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/sto ... 20dyds.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In page 5 under the heading "How do I incorporate DYDS into my game" there are some verbal cues Joe Slowinski suggests, please re read these.

Another article I read in BTM speaks about the anatomy of the shoulder, we were all taught the pendulum must start in the shoulder but that excludes the part that's attached to our neck:

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowlin ... -a-bowler/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you are not a subscriber to Bowling This Month, in my own personal opinion, the above article by itself will justify the subscription.

Finally the way our forearm and wrist are built lets us rotate our hand from palm facing the pins to palm facing the left wall (for a right handed bowler) without having to move the elbow front crease which should always be "giving blood" to the pins.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by EricHartwell »

brood915 wrote:
Hm thank you.
How's my backswing? Is it controlled as well?
Your backswing looks good. You are inside the ball as you should be. You turn it too early, during the down swing. The motion to make the ball hook takes place after you release your thumb from the ball.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by brood915 »

EricHartwell wrote: Your backswing looks good. You are inside the ball as you should be. You turn it too early, during the down swing. The motion to make the ball hook takes place after you release your thumb from the ball.

Thank you!. At least I got my backswing right, which has been a problem for months.. !!
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by TonyPR »

Keep practicing purposefully and never give up, you will get there, many people are just comfortable with the way they have bowled for years, not you, you want to get better and you will. Do your drills and if you can, get a qualified coach who understands your goals and knows how to prescribe drills and goes with you to the lanes at least once every two weeks to make sure you are doing your drills right. Also, again, get that side video and post both the back and side videos on the certified coaching section so Jim Merrell can have a look at them. Have patience and endurance and stay positive.
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by kajmk »

As an addendum to the fine information already rendered.

Here is an all too rare video by Ron Clifton. Ron in my opinion is one of the sports best communicators, as he gets the concept from his mind to another's mind very well.
If you've never read his online tips, give it a go.

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8S8n9CGjBwY[/youtube]

Note his use of "planned failures", some coaches call it "over exaggeration". Some coaches teach from the opposite extreme, working their way back to what you want, for example a backup hand position or a straight ball position, Greg Helms forum member, teaches straight ball first using PAP tape making sure his students can roll it straight first.

Post videos and DO include a side view as that can reveal areas that contribute to a chicken wing. Drive your bowlingside hip down at the bottom of your swing and keep it down.
You can also look at posts by Jim Merrell referencing the word "chicken" for example

Very important: Think Do not Don't, ALWAYS DO!!!

Edit: this link has an article by John Gaines, there is a paragraph dealing with the chicken wing, Mark Baker discusses this late in his DVD
http://www.bowlersmart.com/bowling-blog ... lained-981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tom Kouros wrote of chain reactions and such. The point with the hip is that it can make or break your release, at the least, it's an important component, puts you in a good position that allows you to flow instead of fight.





Cheers!
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and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by brood915 »

kajmk wrote:As an addendum to the fine information already rendered.

Here is an all too rare video by Ron Clifton. Ron in my opinion is one of the sports best communicators, as he gets the concept from his mind to another's mind very well.
If you've never read his online tips, give it a go.

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8S8n9CGjBwY[/youtube]

Note his use of "planned failures", some coaches call it "over exaggeration". Some coaches teach from the opposite extreme, working their way back to what you want, for example a backup hand position or a straight ball position, Greg Helms forum member, teaches straight ball first using PAP tape making sure his students can roll it straight first.

Post videos and DO include a side view as that can reveal areas that contribute to a chicken wing. Drive your bowlingside hip down at the bottom of your swing and keep it down.
You can also look at posts by Jim Merrell referencing the word "chicken" for example

Very important: Think Do not Don't, ALWAYS DO!!!

Edit: this link has an article by John Gaines, there is a paragraph dealing with the chicken wing, Mark Baker discusses this late in his DVD
http://www.bowlersmart.com/bowling-blog ... lained-981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tom Kouros wrote of chain reactions and such. The point with the hip is that it can make or break your release, at the least, it's an important component, puts you in a good position that allows you to flow instead of fight.





Cheers!
Thank you. I recently posted under the certified coach section and jim analyzed my approach.
He told me to stay more behind my ball and square my shoulder more at the foul line.

It seems like I am having a hard time squaring my shoulder.
Does the position of balance arm affect this issue?
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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by kajmk »

I'm going to copy your question to the post in the Certified Coaches Forum.

Jim has given you detailed analysis and a plan to follow.

To make an analogy, Jim is a Master Chef while I've read a few cook books.
Too many cooks spoil the broth.

I certainly do not want to misdirect your focus.
Jim is excellent at know what to change and what to leave alone.

I've added your question below
Thank you. I recently posted under the certified coach section and jim analyzed my approach.
He told me to stay more behind my ball and square my shoulder more at the foul line.

It seems like I am having a hard time squaring my shoulder.
Does the position of balance arm affect this issue?
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

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Re: Need help with my release.. overturning the ball to the

Post by spr3wr »

brood915 wrote:

Thank you. But if I force my arm towards my body in downswing, how can it be "freeswing"? It's very counterintuitive for me.. Should I hold the ball in stance in my index finger?
Don't think of forcing the the arm to the body think more of guiding the hand downward in a backwards motion as if your going to roll a backup ball. Your doing that same motion during your swing into the backwsing (the 2nd pic). Just keep the hand in that same position in the downswing until the ball reaches the back of the slide foot. Then try to release with the fingers behind / on the bottom of the ball.


http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr ... w.png.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Learn to roll a backup ball to learn the feel of staying behind the ball.

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/sto ... cle_09.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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