keeping the revs losing the muscle
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keeping the revs losing the muscle
Working with my son on his game. He has always had ALOT of muscle in his swing. He use to be late in his push away ( for the lack of a better term as he hinges the ball ) which caused him to pull(muscle) his back swing up, that created a pause at the top of his back swing and then a pronounced pull downward in the down swing. We have eliminated the late ball movement, the muscled back swing, and the pause at the top, but in trying to eliminate the muscled down swing at release he loses rev rate. Any drills or ideas as to how to speed up the hand at release without winding the rubber band so tight?
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
How old is your son?
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
Eric, My son is 15. He bowls league and in a traveling scratch scholarship tour that bowls on sports shots exclusively. He has averaged about 220 the last 2 years in league and his current average is 240 for the 1st 13 weeks. He also has multiple sanctioned 300 games and 800 series. On the sports shots he does well on the long and medium patterns but struggles on the short. His current stats are: R handed PAP 3 5/8 over and 2 13/16 up, 19.5 off the hand, 420 Rev rate, 7*-10* tilt and 65-75* rotation (but can change that when need be).
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
Jmat - with numbers like that, I would probably leave him alone!jmatthews wrote:Eric, My son is 15. He bowls league and in a traveling scratch scholarship tour that bowls on sports shots exclusively. He has averaged about 220 the last 2 years in league and his current average is 240 for the 1st 13 weeks. He also has multiple sanctioned 300 games and 800 series. On the sports shots he does well on the long and medium patterns but struggles on the short. His current stats are: R handed PAP 3 5/8 over and 2 13/16 up, 19.5 off the hand, 420 Rev rate, 7*-10* tilt and 65-75* rotation (but can change that when need be).
Most people (non pros) with a 400 plus rev rate will probably have a harder time on the short oil patterns.
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- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
My reason for asking his age... He is still growing, so make sure his grip is adjusted as he grows. Just something to consider when working on his release.
Get some video of his release and post it for Jim Merrell would be my best advice.
Get some video of his release and post it for Jim Merrell would be my best advice.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
Dax, you are right most would be satisfied with those numbers, but he is not. Next year he will bowl in the U-20 at Jr Gold and he knows he will have to improve his game to compete. Eric you are correct on the growing and grip part. We have recently changed his span and are also using a tiered oval thumb to eliminate grip pressure and that has helped a ton. Have him signed up for a clinic with Coach Slowinski over the holidays, will have him look at his span and pitches. But because he is determined, and has worked hard to eliminate the muscle in his swing, he would like to fix this in the hope that Joe can refine the end product. He uses a 5 step approach, his is: slide step, step, half-step,half-step, slide, so he is creating acceleration with his footwork, but I guess he still feels the need to create even more acceleration with his arm, and if he doesnt he loses revs.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
Sounds like you are doing all the right things to improve his game. Another thing to realize is he is getting stronger and has to realize that using 100% of his strength isn't always necessary. I have a similar situation with my daughter, 15y.o. softball player in her second year of weight lifting. She is learning to reign in her added strength and to control it. Recently got her a larger, heavier bat and it has made a huge difference in her hitting.
What pound equip is he rolling?
What pound equip is he rolling?
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
Eric, he has been rolling 15lb equip. for about 2 yrs. He's 6' and around 185. In the last year and a half went from a size 8 1/2 mens shoe to a 13. Hope his feet and hands are done growing as it would be nice to finally get him in a static fit .
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
That's quite the growth spurt.
I've seen many young athletes struggle getting used to their larger, taller and stronger bodies. The really good athletes have less trouble adapting and can take advantage of their new size and strength.
I've seen many young athletes struggle getting used to their larger, taller and stronger bodies. The really good athletes have less trouble adapting and can take advantage of their new size and strength.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
- spmcgivern
- Member
- Posts: 554
- Joined: February 28th, 2011, 7:53 pm
- THS Average: 225
- Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" and 1/4" up
- Speed: 17-18 at pindeck
- Rev Rate: 400
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
I can't really comment on the physical bowling part since your son is doing quite well and I am also guilty of too much muscle.
But one reason why so many people have trouble with the shorter patterns is due to exposure. The medium and long patterns allows bowlers to feel a bit more comfortable since they are close in length to the THS that everyone bowls so much on. The length feels "comfortable" for them. But no where do bowlers see shorter shots except at tournaments. Your son needs exposure to the shorter shots and also a base of knowledge on how to be successful on those shots. This can be from the physical side (how to release the ball, where to play, how to transition, etc.) to equipment (strong balls on short shots can be successful). Once he feels comfortable, he will begin to see the shorter shots as the easier shot as a lot of better bowlers do.
On the muscle part, I do have one idea. Get your son to participate (cross-train) in other activities that require muscle control. Shooting a basketball to develop touch. Shuffleboard also can develop a sense of touch as well as Horseshoes. These activities require touch and I find they help me realize when I am OVER muscling. This isn't necessarily the only way, but I have found more enjoyment out of bowling when I can cross-train with other activities. Helps clear my mind and not feel like bowling is taking up all my time.
But one reason why so many people have trouble with the shorter patterns is due to exposure. The medium and long patterns allows bowlers to feel a bit more comfortable since they are close in length to the THS that everyone bowls so much on. The length feels "comfortable" for them. But no where do bowlers see shorter shots except at tournaments. Your son needs exposure to the shorter shots and also a base of knowledge on how to be successful on those shots. This can be from the physical side (how to release the ball, where to play, how to transition, etc.) to equipment (strong balls on short shots can be successful). Once he feels comfortable, he will begin to see the shorter shots as the easier shot as a lot of better bowlers do.
On the muscle part, I do have one idea. Get your son to participate (cross-train) in other activities that require muscle control. Shooting a basketball to develop touch. Shuffleboard also can develop a sense of touch as well as Horseshoes. These activities require touch and I find they help me realize when I am OVER muscling. This isn't necessarily the only way, but I have found more enjoyment out of bowling when I can cross-train with other activities. Helps clear my mind and not feel like bowling is taking up all my time.
- halfaclue
- Member
- Posts: 343
- Joined: January 26th, 2011, 2:55 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 x 1/8 up
- Speed: 19 off hand
- Rev Rate: 405
- Axis Tilt: 18
- Axis Rotation: 65*
- Heavy Oil Ball: REAX Version 2
- Medium Oil Ball: Yeti Untamed
- Light Oil Ball: Grease monkey
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Wake Forest, NC
Re: keeping the revs losing the muscle
For short patterns you want to have the hand as open as possible. The more tension you have in your fingers the earlier the ball is going to grab the lanes.
I really like the cross training idea. I would like to add in that you should be exercising and working out for bowling as you would for other sports...I.e. baseball, basketball, football. Now I am not saying put on 50 lbs of muscle, but I am saying you should workout. The more core work you do the better off you will be at many points in the swing. For example, the core will help maintain balance while still allowing you to use the core to pull the legs into the finish.
Now the specific question, how to reduce the acceleration from the top of the downswing. My suggestion is have him hang his arm in your hand (dead weight) at the top position. Let him feel a free fall.
Another suggestion is the swing drill in the wiki...viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1052
I really like the cross training idea. I would like to add in that you should be exercising and working out for bowling as you would for other sports...I.e. baseball, basketball, football. Now I am not saying put on 50 lbs of muscle, but I am saying you should workout. The more core work you do the better off you will be at many points in the swing. For example, the core will help maintain balance while still allowing you to use the core to pull the legs into the finish.
Now the specific question, how to reduce the acceleration from the top of the downswing. My suggestion is have him hang his arm in your hand (dead weight) at the top position. Let him feel a free fall.
Another suggestion is the swing drill in the wiki...viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1052
Dan
Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*