today's teaching techniques

Questions about coaching?

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
halfaclue
Member
Member
Posts: 343
Joined: January 26th, 2011, 2:55 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 x 1/8 up
Speed: 19 off hand
Rev Rate: 405
Axis Tilt: 18
Axis Rotation: 65*
Heavy Oil Ball: REAX Version 2
Medium Oil Ball: Yeti Untamed
Light Oil Ball: Grease monkey
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Wake Forest, NC

today's teaching techniques

Post by halfaclue »

While understanding that the best way to help someone is to fix the root cause for the problem, but what if the root cause of the problem is more mental block than physical mistake.

What I mean by this is, what if the block is forgetfulness. The physical game is going along fine and then back to back bad shots, or back to back bad breaks and now the wheels are falling off.

Would this be more of a preshot routine or process issue? Any help on this topic will help.

thanks,
Dan

Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
Graaille
Member
Member
Posts: 288
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:46 am
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Contact:

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by Graaille »

Mental game and physical game goes hand in hand (as it were), if your physical game is going great, make sure that your mental game doesn't go lax in the process. Yes a consistent preshot routine is key, but also during your post shot thinking about it - especially on a non-stellar shot - make sure that a bad physical execution doesn't translate to a bad mental focus/attitude.

That's why you hear the pros on the telecast say 'good shot' or 'what are you doing' -- the mindset is "I executed properly, and got this result - therefore I need to adjust." versus "I didn't execute well, so I can't make a move based on that result." Fred Borden (I think it's Fred anyway) has a saying of 15 seconds and then move on. If you pure a shot - 15 seconds of happiness, if you tank a shot - 15 seconds of grumble, then refocus and move on. There are other resources, Dean Hinitz's Focused for Bowling and Thomas C. Kouros' Par Bowling are two great resources.

Keeping focus is different than over-thinking or under-thinking. If you're going to be guilty of something - be guilty of keeping focus.
Back into Blogging: http://lifeasjasonharris.blogspot.com/ 80% Bowling, 100% me. (oh hold while working on several other projects -- sorry)

The Gathering 2k16, Winston Salem, NC, July 29-31. Just ask me for more info.
JMerrell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1440
Joined: August 1st, 2010, 1:45 pm
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/8" x 1/2" up
Speed: 16 mph @ foul line
Rev Rate: 230
Axis Tilt: 20
Axis Rotation: 50
Location: Florence, Ky

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by JMerrell »

Just as in "The Mental Aspect of the Game" post below this one in the coaching discussion forum.

I encourage reading of the material provided in Coach Pat Henry's site:
http://www.bowlingmentor.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pat provides quite quite a bit of information, take the time to read, evaluate and understand the material.
-JMerrell
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"
User avatar
halfaclue
Member
Member
Posts: 343
Joined: January 26th, 2011, 2:55 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4 x 1/8 up
Speed: 19 off hand
Rev Rate: 405
Axis Tilt: 18
Axis Rotation: 65*
Heavy Oil Ball: REAX Version 2
Medium Oil Ball: Yeti Untamed
Light Oil Ball: Grease monkey
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Wake Forest, NC

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by halfaclue »

Thanks for that link Jim. That provided a good reference point for the visual learners.

thanks again.
Dan

Ball speed: 19 mph (off hand)
Tilt: 18*
Rotation: 55*
User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3837
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by kajmk »

I encourage reading of the material provided in Coach Pat Henry's site:
http://www.bowlingmentor.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks Jim, Pat's website a new one on me and it's been there since 2006.
Come to think of it, I was totally out of bowling in every sense from late 2005 until sometime in 2010.
Very nice presentation, though I've not installed all the plug in's though.
The view from beneath is ingenious.

A link to Pat Henry's site has been added to the wiki

Path - click the Wiki button near the top of the Bowling Chat page
Then - Reference
Then - Bowling Websites
Then - Bowling Mentor- Pat Henry
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
User avatar
TH58PZ700U
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 400
Joined: May 30th, 2011, 8:10 pm
THS Average: 194
Positive Axis Point: 5" Right, 1/2" Up
Speed: 17.25 mph (avg off hand)
Rev Rate: 340
Axis Tilt: 20
Axis Rotation: 50
Heavy Oil Ball: Taboo
Medium Oil Ball: Arson
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer (2001)
Preferred Company: Hammer
Location: Louisiana

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by TH58PZ700U »

I believe today's best coached individuals are the ones with the most knowledge and the best ability to use that knowledge in their game. With a keen understanding of the physical game (prior experience in other sports helps, golf in particular), there is a smaller crest at the top of the learning curve when teaching a new skill. Knowledge can never substitute for physical ability but it can make it easier to understand what action is being desired and how to accomplish it.

Halfaclue, you mention forgetfulness as the cause of a problem. I'd actually like to encourage forgetfulness to some degree in my students because my desire is to build the process into muscle memory and take the thought process out of the shot. Think, execute, think. Never think while executing. The pre-shot routine is the time to think about adjustments, marks, etc. Then execute given those parameters, then think about what you intended, what actually occurred, and what was the root cause of the discrepancy.

I also expect forgetfulness in new athletes who will forget to bend their knees in their pre-shot routine or drop the ball to far in the setup cause its more comfortable, etc. I believe these are not so much forgetting on their part but keying in on what I'm teaching them thats important (and in the case of forgetting it, not important). If the person doesn't feel or see the benefit in knee bending in the athletic pose, why? Can we talk it out and figure out why its important? Or is there some other action in the approach that nullifies the positive benefits of the knee bend in the beginning?

When we see multiple bad shots in a row, its often a mental issue. If you physically execute a good shot and it leaves a 2-8-10. You throw at it and get count, then get up on the next lane and throw a 2-4-8-10, something's wrong. Part of the problem I see in a lot of students is not trusting that a shot was good enough to adjust off of. I like to stress that if you make a bad shot and get a bad result, don't make an adjustment off of it. But if you physically execute properly and get a bad result, you must have the mental confidence to know you did and its time to make an adjustment. I think this disconnect between the mental and physical game is the heart of your conundrum. How does the mind know when the body is executing properly especially if the physical actions are governed by muscle memory and thought is removed? This is a delightful problem to have as coaching is the key way to fix it. Coach the best behavior into the athlete, they practice it into muscle memory, then upon poor execution something will feel off. That feeling is the key to it all. The post-shot routine should always ask if something felt wrong and that should be the first indication of why a shot may have gone awry.
USBC Certified Bronze Coach

PAP: 5" Right, 1/2" Up
Speed: 17.25 (avg off hand)
Rev: 300-360 rpm (340 avg)
Axis Tilt: 15-25*
Axis Rotation: 30-70*

High Game: 286
High Series: 693
User avatar
Tampabaybob
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 66
Joined: April 15th, 2011, 2:29 pm
THS Average: 217
Speed: 16.5/pindeck
Rev Rate: 300
Heavy Oil Ball: Brunswick Alpha Max
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Evil Seige
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick BVP Punisher & Dry R
Preferred Company: Brunswick
Location: Seffner, Florida

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by Tampabaybob »

halfaclue wrote:While understanding that the best way to help someone is to fix the root cause for the problem, but what if the root cause of the problem is more mental block than physical mistake.

What I mean by this is, what if the block is forgetfulness. The physical game is going along fine and then back to back bad shots, or back to back bad breaks and now the wheels are falling off.

Would this be more of a preshot routine or process issue? Any help on this topic will help.

thanks,

Having coached hundreds of bowlers over the past 30+ years, I can tell you, having run into a few, that there are some individuals that cannot grasp the mental and physical aspects of the game. While still possibly being a 180 - 190 average bowler, their ability to get to the next plateau is an immense achievement.

Case in point: I had a friend and teammate that asked me to help him. Many times we would practice together and he would seem to get it, and start bowling well. He would then go down and practice, shoot ok, then show up on league nite and go back to his old ways. Now this is a guy that has bowled over 20 years and averaged in and around 190. Brought my video camera down during a Sunday practice with him, and again he seemed to really get it and shot something like a 770 !
He shot ok for a couple of weeks and then went right back to doing the same bad habits we had gotten rid of. Worked with him several times after that and I finally gave up and suggested he try another coach (very well known and respected LPGA member). He spent a good amount of money with her and nothing changed.

It can be very frustrating sometimes, but when you coach lots of people and kids and you see results from 90% or more, it makes you feel very good about getting people to a better level of their game.

Most coaches, myself included, do this because we love the game and want to see it continue to grow and prosper. I love having kids come up to me and get excited about how they scored in a tournament, or how they did in practice.
Bob
USBC Certified Bronze Level Coach
300 games - 8 (sanctioned)
800 series - 4 (high 856)
Hall of Fame - 1996 - SE CT Bowling Assoc
User avatar
RMaxfield
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 77
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 3:20 pm
Preferred Company: SLSM Designs Bowlers SlideSock
Location: Irving Texas

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by RMaxfield »

There are many things involved. Fear, trust, comfort zone, knowledge.... You can have all the knowledge but if you are missing trust and understanding a player will go with what they know and trust, good or bad. Last night I was working with a group of students. I watched one I will call Sally. She threw 4 shots and all of them smacked the 4 pin. I asked her if the lanes were dry and I had to reexplain what dry meant. She went "Oh Yeah". So I asked her if she made another shot from the same spot what would happen? I dunno! Well the same thing as the last 4 shots. OH! So Sally what should you do? Move??? Ok tell me how you are going to move. I dunno, I told her the shot is not up 10 period. Ok so I want you to stand 35, look in the channel next to the 10 pin and draw a line back to the 3rd arrow. Ok that is your shot. BOOM Sally blows the rack! She goes 90, 167, 154 last night. Sally is learning topography and it's hard for her to understand. She is also learning ball reaction but has a problem grasping how and why things work. She has to understand visually but since she is unable to see the oil pattern and does not trust her self yet she has a habit of going back to what she knows. This is a long hard process and takes time and lots of practice. She also has to not be afraid to ask for help. We have to reward her when she does the right thing and support her when she is afraid. Many bowlers slip into their comfort zone automatically and do not realize they have even done it. They come to me and ask for help and go really??? I see a lot of correct, correct, correct, brain !@#$, brain !@#$, correct.

Robert
USBC Bowling Silver Coach, Dick Ritger Level 1 & 2 Instructor, USBC Level 1 Coach Instructor, ASEP Coaching Principles, IBPSIA Certified Technician, USBC Fundamentals of Team Coaching Certified, USBC Athlete Development Drills Certified
User avatar
Tampabaybob
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 66
Joined: April 15th, 2011, 2:29 pm
THS Average: 217
Speed: 16.5/pindeck
Rev Rate: 300
Heavy Oil Ball: Brunswick Alpha Max
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Evil Seige
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick BVP Punisher & Dry R
Preferred Company: Brunswick
Location: Seffner, Florida

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by Tampabaybob »

RMaxfield wrote:They come to me and ask for help and go really??? I see a lot of correct, correct, correct, brain !@#$, brain !@#$, correct.

Robert, I love the last part of your statement. Working with the kids today during the summer league, I had a couple of kids that fit that exact profile. Really funny, really true !
Bob
USBC Certified Bronze Level Coach
300 games - 8 (sanctioned)
800 series - 4 (high 856)
Hall of Fame - 1996 - SE CT Bowling Assoc
Athery
Member
Member
Posts: 113
Joined: May 5th, 2010, 9:38 pm
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 7/8
Speed: 16
Rev Rate: 270
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 70

Re: today's teaching techniques

Post by Athery »

Anybody what happened to the site. its unavailable now :(
Post Reply