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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:10 pm Post Number: #21 Post
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doogie wrote:
All great observations. One more thing that has helped me from the many helpful individuals on this forum is A good coach should , in my opinion, and foremost, make sure the student is properly fitted into his equipment in regards to span pitch and weight. I was wrongly measured by an "old school" driller, coach and proceeded to acquire severe MF pain. After discussing with the people on this site, my pain is gone, consequently , I am back bowling as before, pain free and also helping with the problems acquired from being STRETCHED in the ball, rotation issues, tilt issues, just all around problems. So, fit is of utmost importance to me. Have a great Christmas everyone.

What a great point to bring up. The first thing I think every coach should do when meeting with a new athlete is check the fit. I had a new student tell me before our first session his arm was sore in between his wrist and elbow. As I thought about it, I realized this could have been from a span issue. When we began I checked and his primary ball was drilled completely stretched for his fingers, his secondary ball was drilled even longer than that. A new fit will increase both his repeatability and reduce strain.

Another top skill of a quality coach I think is humility. There are many times that the egos of a student get in the way of teaching them a new skill and this is an expected part of the process, but the ego of the coach should never get in the way. I know its been said a hundred times before but coach with the bowler's style not against it. A coach must be willing to admit that an undesirable form may have merits for the bowler and it is their job to coach for the most benefit of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:16 pm Post Number: #22 Post
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FruitFly wrote:
Even if I never experienced it I would imagine, that it would be a great help if the coach were able to build your game upon your personal style instead of forcing his style onto you.


This situation can go either way. There can be something you are doing in your personal style that is really causing an issues and then again it might not. It's a working relationship, both sides have to be listening to one another for it to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:18 am Post Number: #23 Post
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Over the last year I have been involved with mentoring other coaches. I went to a new center to work with 6 Bronze and 1 Level 1 coach. I took one of my students with me that will make an excellent coach in the very near future. When I met with the youth director I promised not to make any waves and mostly observe. I handed her my resume and the reply was "what's this?" and "why do you need that?". I told her that every coach should carry their resume and that if a parent or student wanted to know about you and what you have done it would be there. It lets parents know where you have been and what you have done and that their children are in good hands. She told me there was no need and that must just be a silver level thing. I carry documentation for what I am teaching. I give this to students and to parents so that they can see the material I am presenting is factual. It also lets them have something to refer back to after the lesson. Some things I have written and others topics many respected coaches have produced. One of the things I have written and teach my students is to be prepared. I have written a gadget bag list of what should or could be carried in your bowling bag at all times. There is nothing worse than someone running around the settee area looking for a piece of tape and disturbing people. If you are prepared your mind is on bowling, not tape. I was told that only the travel league kids should have this information. I asked why? Oh there is no need.... The difference in winning and losing are the little things, the efforts and the work ethic your coach puts into you the student. If the coach puts out only a half effort you get only half results.

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:58 am Post Number: #24 Post
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RMaxfield wrote:
Over the last year I have been involved with mentoring other coaches. I went to a new center to work with 6 Bronze and 1 Level 1 coach. I took one of my students with me that will make an excellent coach in the very near future. When I met with the youth director I promised not to make any waves and mostly observe. I handed her my resume and the reply was "what's this?" and "why do you need that?". I told her that every coach should carry their resume and that if a parent or student wanted to know about you and what you have done it would be there. It lets parents know where you have been and what you have done and that their children are in good hands. She told me there was no need and that must just be a silver level thing. I carry documentation for what I am teaching. I give this to students and to parents so that they can see the material I am presenting is factual. It also lets them have something to refer back to after the lesson. Some things I have written and others topics many respected coaches have produced. One of the things I have written and teach my students is to be prepared. I have written a gadget bag list of what should or could be carried in your bowling bag at all times. There is nothing worse than someone running around the settee area looking for a piece of tape and disturbing people. If you are prepared your mind is on bowling, not tape. I was told that only the travel league kids should have this information. I asked why? Oh there is no need.... The difference in winning and losing are the little things, the efforts and the work ethic your coach puts into you the student. If the coach puts out only a half effort you get only half results.

Robert


This statement and approch is about as PROFESSIONAL as one can be expected to get. The state of bowling correlates with the approch by the youth director who simply doesn't get. Nice job Robert.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:31 am Post Number: #25 Post
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RMaxfield wrote:
Over the last year I have been involved with mentoring other coaches. I went to a new center to work with 6 Bronze and 1 Level 1 coach. I took one of my students with me that will make an excellent coach in the very near future. When I met with the youth director I promised not to make any waves and mostly observe. I handed her my resume and the reply was "what's this?" and "why do you need that?". I told her that every coach should carry their resume and that if a parent or student wanted to know about you and what you have done it would be there. It lets parents know where you have been and what you have done and that their children are in good hands. She told me there was no need and that must just be a silver level thing. I carry documentation for what I am teaching. I give this to students and to parents so that they can see the material I am presenting is factual. It also lets them have something to refer back to after the lesson. Some things I have written and others topics many respected coaches have produced. One of the things I have written and teach my students is to be prepared. I have written a gadget bag list of what should or could be carried in your bowling bag at all times. There is nothing worse than someone running around the settee area looking for a piece of tape and disturbing people. If you are prepared your mind is on bowling, not tape. I was told that only the travel league kids should have this information. I asked why? Oh there is no need.... The difference in winning and losing are the little things, the efforts and the work ethic your coach puts into you the student. If the coach puts out only a half effort you get only half results.

Robert


If I may add, he should also be presentable - "dressed for the occasion" sort of thing. In our center, where we teach kids, we make sure certificates copies of the certificates, citations etc are available to not only to the parents and students.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:14 am Post Number: #26 Post
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Quote:
If I may add, he should also be presentable - "dressed for the occasion" sort of thing. In our center, where we teach kids, we make sure certificates copies of the certificates, citations etc are available to not only to the parents and students.



I try to dress for the occasion but more often than not I wear scrubs to coach in. They fit loosely and have big pockets in the front that I keep a lot of stuff in. As for my formal coaching attire, thanks to Bob Learn I am well out fitted. We are about the same size and he gave me a lot of stuff when he moved.

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:36 am Post Number: #27 Post
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Robert wrote: Over the last year I have been involved with mentoring other coaches. I went to a new center to work with 6 Bronze and 1 Level 1 coach.

Robert, you mentioned in another thread that you are working on your website (not listed).

I don't know how much mentoring of other coaches is done, I don't recall ever seeing any advertising for such sessions or clinics. It's been my opinion that it's something that is needed.
I had suggested that the folks at BTM consider a "SuperSchool" for coaches similar to what they've run for bowlers over the years. I never heard back. Maybe there's insufficient interest, maybe it's not coast effective, maybe all coaches do not welcome competition.
How much demand have you seen for your mentoring sessions?

I suspect that in some cases, ego may stand in the way, but that coaches mentoring program is something that's needed. Of course, money is another factor

Many trades have apprenticeships wherein the novice learns from the craftsman, an approach (no pun) that bowling could benefit from.

Comments? Robert, Jim, others?

Thanks for all you bring to the table.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:12 am Post Number: #28 Post
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kajmk wrote:
I had suggested that the folks at BTM consider a "SuperSchool" for coaches similar to what they've run for bowlers over the years.


An "outsider" group has to do this as Arlington will not. I tried to get IBPSIA to do this 3/4 years ago only to be "tabled".

REAL progress will come from an institution NOT associated with Arlington.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:33 am Post Number: #29 Post
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Robert, you mentioned in another thread that you are working on your website (not listed).

I don't know how much mentoring of other coaches is done, I don't recall ever seeing any advertising for such sessions or clinics. It's been my opinion that it's something that is needed.
I had suggested that the folks at BTM consider a "SuperSchool" for coaches similar to what they've run for bowlers over the years. I never heard back. Maybe there's insufficient interest, maybe it's not coast effective, maybe all coaches do not welcome competition.
How much demand have you seen for your mentoring sessions?

I suspect that in some cases, ego may stand in the way, but that coaches mentoring program is something that's needed. Of course, money is another factor

Many trades have apprenticeships wherein the novice learns from the craftsman, an approach (no pun) that bowling could benefit from.

Comments? Robert, Jim, others?

Thanks for all you bring to the table.[/quote]


John

My website is http://www.rcmaxfield.com. Mentoring is a big problem in my opinion with the USBC system. The first issue is you have to have coaches to mentor and the second is they have to be willing to be mentored. When I got to the center they had 7 coaches of which only 1 showed up before league started. The center would not allow coaching during league. Any bowlers that wanted coaching had open games for an hour before league started. The only people working was the level 1, Dennis the person that came with me and myself. League would start at 10 am and the coaches would straggle in. In fact the bowlers would straggle in themselves sometime up to 2 hours after league started. The coaches almost to a man told me they had all the coaching information they wanted and planned to go no further. Once their kids were done they were out of there.

If USBC is requiring mentoring it is a very tall order. Many of the coaches that were created simply got certified and went in whatever direction. In my opinion sitting on the concourse and sucking down coffee and donuts is not coaching but there are a lot of so called coaches that do just that.

I have approached USBC on a number of different topics. One of these topics is to redo the How to create a High School bowling team and system. Yes they have a program and it has not been updated since ABC,WIBC,YABA days. The reactions to some proposals is hit and miss. I wrote a large chunk of the Boy Scouts Merit Badge program for bowling. At the time the BSA did or does not have one.

The fact is a large amount of people that are coaches do not want to coach. Many do not know how to do it and some just like the title. This is a major problem for USBC because they created a coaching program that produced a large amount of ineffective and non working coaches. Mentoring coaches is needed but it has to start from the beginning not 2 years after you have been certified. I am very picky about who's classes I attend. The first certification I received was my Bronze. Susie Minshew was the instructor and the woman is business she sets the standard. Funny thing I was a Silver before I actually became a Level 1!

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:38 am Post Number: #30 Post
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Quote:
Gary wrote: An "outsider" group has to do this as Arlington will not. I tried to get IBPSIA to do this 3/4 years ago only to be "tabled".

REAL progress will come from an institution NOT associated with Arlington.


How do "we" make it so?

Robert, thanks for sharing your experience and opinions.
I believe the Japanese expression Kaizen applies to you.
Quote:
The coaches almost to a man told me they had all the coaching information they wanted and planned to go no further.
Lack of commitment to and concern for their students.

Quote:
Mentoring is a big problem in my opinion with the USBC system. The first issue is you have to have coaches to mentor and the second is they have to be willing to be mentored.

Some if not all of the "known" coaches pay homage to their mentors. Anyone that would instruct another must practice continuous improvement and sharpening of the sword.

I made a quick visit to your website and bookmarked it.
You might consider listing that you "mentor other coaches and aspiring coaches". Who knows, someday a future Bill Hall or Tom Kouros might pass your way and you could be an instrument in their development. People like you are precious assets to the sport.

I noted that you've been at it for 40 years. That's 40 years of wisdom. Texas is a huge state, I drove through it 1 year :) There has to be more than a few that might take you up on the mentoring.

I hope that veteran coaches such as yourself and Jim also consider mentoring would be coaches.
Teachers teaching teachers is a way to multiply the benefit. Though many may not line up, the ones that do will be committed (most of them anyway).

Keep sending your opinions to the powers that be, maybe someday one will bear fruit.

Again, thanks for what you bring to the table and for sharing the gift of knowledge.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:02 am Post Number: #31 Post
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A bit of deviation from the topic at hand but I wanted to touch on apprenticeship. I've been an unpaid apprentice in my local pro shop since about March. I've received numerous benefits in the form of education and practical experience, while reduced prices doesn't hurt a bit. I believe that anyone who wants to be good at something should do whatever it takes to get better, and if you have someone who can teach you, you should be willing to give up your time and energy to learn from them in a way that makes it worth their while. For instance, I work in the shop anywhere from an hour to two hours on the busiest league night handling cleaning and resurfacing on the spinner while the pro shop operator does more labor and experience intensive tasks like drilling. I win for the experience, he wins for the increased income. Its a win-win.

More on topic. My personal coach mentors me a lot about coaching topics. I'm very pragmatic and technical and I often need someone to tell me when to shut up and dumb down what I'm talking about. Learning from these scenarios is what will ultimately make me a better coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:15 pm Post Number: #32 Post
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A good coach has patience and understands that sometimes it can take time for progress to be made. While maintaining a sense of urgency is good, a quality coach also must recognize that immediate changes are not always possible. A coach must recognize that breaking old habits requires repetition and mistakes often are made along the way. A patient coach doesn’t try to rush you to discover new things and is willing to take a step-by-step approach to behavioral change.

Also a quality coach needs to exhibit an intellectual curiosity, which involves expressing interest in your situation and trying to get to the bottom of each issue. This means asking plenty of questions to understand you better and knowing how to ask good questions to solicit meaningful responses. Asking the right questions can take coaching conversations to a new level.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:54 pm Post Number: #33 Post
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It is by far easier to help coaches that want help. Unfortunately the number of them is becoming fewer and fewer. This is not because they think they know it all but because of many other different reasons.


Since we are on this topic of top skills I thought I might add this here and see what happens. I am a bit of a maverick as far as some people are concerned. I took my ASEP in Vegas years ago and shocked my instructors and my class mates. One of the questions was: You are a football coach. Your star running back runs down to the 3 yard line and is tackled. He gets up spits on his tackler and throws the ball at his opponent. The only people that see this happen is you, the other team and their coach. There is only 5 seconds left in the game. What do you do? Jeanne and Rich went around the room and everyone said I would pull him from the game and sit him on the bench. I was the last one asked what I would do. My reply was I am going to leave him in. Everyone else's mouths dropped wide open. They asked why? I told them: 1st you have not told me enough about the game. It is true what he did is wrong and he will get dealt with but as a coach I need to know more. I have 49 other players that are depending on the decision I make. How was the rest of the game played? You only told me about 8 seconds worth. If the game has been a dirty nasty brawl that changes a lot. If the whole game has been hard fought on both sides and actions have been equal I am not going to take the wind out of my team. Now if it was a fair clean game and the running back did this it is a different matter all together. But with the information you have given I do not have enough to make a proper decision.

The teams I coach will be prepared to do battle with anyone in as many conditions as possible. I refuse to let anyone walk on the teams I coach. I also will not tolerate bullies on either side especially my own. I would be more disappointed in my running back for breaking his own disciple than his actions. The running back let the other team get to him and that is more important.

One of my students became pregnant in her senior year. She bowled all season and the other teams gave here a really hard time. Rather than let those people get to her she and her team did what they were taught to do. They blocked out the other team and rallied around each other. The only person watching the other team was the team captain and myself. The team went undefeated for the season and Taylor bowled her last match 9 months pregnant. She gave up her spot at state because she was busy giving birth.

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:27 pm Post Number: #34 Post
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Quote:
Gary wrote in reply to Roberts post which is #23 in this thread
This statement and approch is about as PROFESSIONAL as one can be expected to get.
I believe that Roberts post contains many elements that should be part of a coaches mission statement.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:36 pm Post Number: #35 Post
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Don't talk down to people.You may know more about the you sport that
you coach,but that doesn't make you better than them.

If you are asked a question,don't respond with a smart azz commment.
Not all questions are stupid,but some coaches can be.

Be humble!

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:52 pm Post Number: #36 Post
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coolerman wrote:
Don't talk down to people.You may know more about the you sport that
you coach,but that doesn't make you better than them.

If you are asked a question,don't respond with a smart azz commment.
Not all questions are stupid,but some coaches can be.

Be humble!


This is a very good point! There are many times when people honestly do not know something. I had a student that had bowled for 6 years in youth bowling before she came to me. I asked her to stand 20 and just throw a few shots so I could just watch. Her reply "what's that?" Most people would assume she would know but she did not. There are also times when someone does something that a coach may consider absolutely wrong. There may a perfectly good reason for it and it makes sense! I had a student that threw a back up ball. Some people just gasp at the thought. The young lady had one arm 6 inches longer than the other and had limited use of her left arm. So we taught her as if she was left handed. Each relationship between coach and student is different. Certain people you work with it may seem as if you are talking down to them but in reality they know exactly where you are coming from but the relationship has to be 100% or it can be a big mistake.

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:55 pm Post Number: #37 Post
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Probably one of the greatest pieces of wisdom ever expressed:

One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

Something we could all use more of.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:54 am Post Number: #38 Post
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It takes honest assessment to admit to having weaknesses but we all have them. We just do not want them to interfere with good coaching judgment. By focusing on your strengths you will be able to identify consistent ways to coach that utilize those strengths. Are you a good teacher, or motivator, or academic, or communicator or a former athlete? Are you dynamic, or easy going, or hard nosed or open and friendly? Use your strengths to your advantage. By taking time to make a serious assessment of your strengths and weaknesses and recognizing your morals, values and beliefs you are better able to adapt your own style to the athletes being coached. In addition, you will answer the important questions on why you are a coach, how you actually deliver as a coach and what objectives you are trying to accomplish. Self-knowledge leads to self-confidence and you want to exude what you believe in. One other point to consider here is how do others perceive you?

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:00 pm Post Number: #39 Post
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Research and innovation is constantly varying the procedures coaches should carry out and implement.A coach should be open-minded and willing to alter their approach, and at times their own beliefs to incorporate the changes. Coaches should not dismiss a new or improved concept.

No coach is perfect and the better coaches realize this, they are the ones who have the desire to continually learn. If a coach really wishes to enhance their own ability they must be open-minded to seek both advice and criticism from all of those around them, as well as keeping up-to-date on literature and practices.

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 Post subject: Re: Top skills of a quality coach
 Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:06 pm Post Number: #40 Post
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Bumping this up.

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