Release Question

Questions about coaching?

Moderator: Moderators

elgavachon
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3174
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm

Re: Release Question

Post by elgavachon »

Dustin? wrote: I had the same thing happen to me once .....then I woke up. :roll:
32 in a row!! WOW!! Great bowling!!
CONGRATULATIONS Dustin.
Keep those coming. thanks for posting.
DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: Release Question

Post by DAVIDINIL »

elgavachon wrote: CONGRATULATIONS Dustin.
Keep those coming. thanks for posting.
Well It actually got better tonight in my PBA-X League. 269-241-300 = 811. My first sport shot 300 and 800 series. And I'm doing better just because I added a little forward tilt to my body at release.

BTW, I bowled this night's series using a Storm IQT Solid.
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Release Question

Post by MegaMav »

BIG!

You've done only what I've only dreamed of doing!

Congratulations!
DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: Release Question

Post by DAVIDINIL »

Thanks buddy. My friends tell me that the trophy the usbc gives out for a sport shot 800 is really nice. I can't wait to see it!

That Storm IQ Tour Solid is an amazing piece.
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229
elgavachon
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3174
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm

Re: Release Question

Post by elgavachon »

DAVIDINIL wrote:Thanks buddy. My friends tell me that the trophy the usbc gives out for a sport shot 800 is really nice. I can't wait to see it!

That Storm IQ Tour Solid is an amazing piece.
THAT IS REALLY AND GREAT.
Thanks for posting this.
User avatar
Dustin
BCU Graduate Layouts
BCU Graduate Layouts
Posts: 892
Joined: June 5th, 2010, 11:55 am

Re: Release Question

Post by Dustin »

elgavachon wrote: CONGRATULATIONS Dustin.
Keep those coming. thanks for posting.

Thanks for the congrats elga but mine was a dream.
Davidinil is the real deal.
Holy crap 800 on sport shot!! Now that is what dreams are made of. Keep up the great bowling.
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: Release Question

Post by DAVIDINIL »

Thank you Dustin. You and the gang here have given me a lot more confidence in choosing equipment and layouts. I cannot thank everyone here enough. A few minutes with someone who knows what they are talking about can really give the bowler a shortcut over trial and error.

You guys rock!!
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229
User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3837
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: Release Question

Post by kajmk »

Belated congratulations. Very Impressive.

Best wishes for continued success and improvement.

Thanks for sharing your story and the changes you've made along the way.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
elgavachon
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3174
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm

Re: Release Question

Post by elgavachon »

You wouldn't happen to have a before & after videos?

I would at least make a current one in case you need it someday.
User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3837
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: Release Question

Post by kajmk »

elgavachon wrote:You wouldn't happen to have a before & after videos?

I would at least make a current one in case you need it someday.

That is an excellent point.
Create and maintain a video archive.
This is a method that athletes and coaches in other sports employ.
It can be a slump buster should one ever darken your bowling shoes.


Unless you have a gifted memory like Mary Lou Henner that is.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505270_162- ... ly-a-gift/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: Release Question

Post by DAVIDINIL »

elgavachon wrote:You wouldn't happen to have a before & after videos?

I would at least make a current one in case you need it someday.
I do have a before clip that I posted for review somewhere on this site. But I have not had a chance to shoot myself lately for the after. And really you may not see a big difference. The "only" thing I did was add maybe 10-15 degrees of forward tilt to my torso at the finish position. Where-as before I was raring back with my shoulders, causing me to hit up on the ball.

And for the record, the bowing gods have a sense of humor. Just when I thought I had everything figured out, I go out and shoot 277, 210, 158 = 645. On a house shot. All my opens were splits. Didn't flag any spares. Too funny.

IF you are interested I could post before and after. Let me know if you're interested.
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229
User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3837
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: Release Question

Post by kajmk »

If memory serves me well, Amelleto Monacelli won his first stateside title with a 158. As Casey
Stengel said, "and you can look can look it up".
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
elgavachon
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3174
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm

Re: Release Question

Post by elgavachon »

DAVIDINIL wrote: I do have a before clip that I posted for review somewhere on this site. But I have not had a chance to shoot myself lately for the after. And really you may not see a big difference. The "only" thing I did was add maybe 10-15 degrees of forward tilt to my torso at the finish position. Where-as before I was raring back with my shoulders, causing me to hit up on the ball.

And for the record, the bowing gods have a sense of humor. Just when I thought I had everything figured out, I go out and shoot 277, 210, 158 = 645. On a house shot. All my opens were splits. Didn't flag any spares. Too funny.

IF you are interested I could post before and after. Let me know if you're interested.
Yes. That would be great.
User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3837
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: Release Question

Post by kajmk »

Excavation, I'm away from a pc or I'd supply the link.
David, you submitted a video which Jim critiqued back in Oct 2012, is that the one?

I actually have a collection of some of the analysis provided by the Maestro.

I have a vague recollection of the analysis and pictures Jim supplied.


Attempting to type via kindle. Not a fan of touch pad keyboards !
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: Release Question

Post by DAVIDINIL »

That's correct Kaj. Funny thing about those vids that coach M looked at, I executed those shots closer to ideal than what I would have normally done, because subconsciously I knew the bowling community would be viewing them. It's funny what having an audience does to your behavior. :-)

When I get the newer vid version created, I can post the link to the old one as well.
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229
User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3837
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: Release Question

Post by kajmk »

To anyone interested that has not already looked it up, here is the link to David's post and Jim's analysis ...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6844" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
User avatar
MattyBiggz
Member
Member
Posts: 49
Joined: March 24th, 2011, 11:12 pm
THS Average: 227
Speed: 17+
Heavy Oil Ball: Brunswick Alpha-Max
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Ulti-Max
Light Oil Ball: DV8 Misfit
Preferred Company: Brunswick (@ the moment)
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Release Question

Post by MattyBiggz »

DAVIDINIL wrote:For what it's worth, I have an update on my release issue. It turns out that my ball was not pushing thru the heads very well because I was hitting up on the ball. My ball would go out over the line and double bounce ever so slightly.

Why was I hitting up on the ball? I realized by watching video of my game that my forward torso tilt at release point was maybe 30-40 degrees. After watching elite bowlers, I realized that they are much closer to 45-55 degrees. I noticed that my center of gravity was too far back and I finished slightly too much onto my heal of my slide foot, instead of being more towards my toes.

AFter correcting the torso tilt issue, my track auto-magically lowered itself. I am now getting closer to 15 degrees axis tilt. My ball is pushing thru the heads and retaining energy much better. I can use more aggressive equipment for better pin carry. I have added 10 pins to my house average and 5 to my PBA-X league average ( i will have to update my signature stats, again). I no longer have much problems getting the ball to recover and kick out the flat 10 when playing fourth arrow.


Last night I shot my 6th 300 in 15 months, and my first 800 ever, with a 857. Here the recap of my night: open frame, spare, 32 strikes in a row, 9 /. 268-300-289. Its a house shot, but not easy. we have 32 teams of 4 and the previous high series was 769.

All because I was too vertical at the foul line. Adding a mere 10-15 degrees of forward body lean at release has made a ton of difference in my game. I rarely see this aspect mentioned as being important. But for me it has made the world of difference.

Something to look for if you are having flat 10 problems with every ball you throw.

I just had this exact lightbulb moment. Gettting out more over my toes and not sitting back has helped tremendously. Also, I made the connection that when putting my hand in the ball, after I insert my thumb, I sort of "push" my hand towards my fingers, putting a little extra weight of the ball there and on my index finger and it's first knuckle where it meets my palm. That move also helped raise my axis tilt and I have a much smoother release and it's hard for me to "pull up" on the ball and i don't have any grip pressure with my thumb. My "modern release" is a work in progess, but I'm making strides and have noticed a huge difference in my ball motion from release to my ball hitting the pins. Keep working, and everytime you make headway, that great feeling you get will be just what you need to keep you moving forward.

Biggz
MattyBiggz
Columbus, Ohio
Avg: ~225 THS
High Game: 300 (4)
High Series: 809 (2)
Current Equip: Brunswick Ulti-Max, Alpha-Max, Karma Solid, Loaded Revolver, Wicked Siege, Damage, DV8 Misfit, Storm Crossroad, Storm Frantic, Storm IQ Tour Pearl, RotoGrip Golden Globe
User avatar
kajmk
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3837
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 11:41 pm
Location: Sun City Arizona

Re: Release Question

Post by kajmk »

I just had this exact lightbulb moment. Gettting out more over my toes and not sitting back has helped tremendously. Also, I made the connection that when putting my hand in the ball, after I insert my thumb, I sort of "push" my hand towards my fingers, putting a little extra weight of the ball there and on my index finger and it's first knuckle where it meets my palm. That move also helped raise my axis tilt and I have a much smoother release and it's hard for me to "pull up" on the ball and i don't have any grip pressure with my thumb. My "modern release" is a work in progess, but I'm making strides and have noticed a huge difference in my ball motion from release to my ball hitting the pins. Keep working, and everytime you make headway, that great feeling you get will be just what you need to keep you moving forward.

Biggz
Matty, I think "and on my index finger and it's first knuckle where it meets my palm" is a big part of the improvement you've observed.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
User avatar
MattyBiggz
Member
Member
Posts: 49
Joined: March 24th, 2011, 11:12 pm
THS Average: 227
Speed: 17+
Heavy Oil Ball: Brunswick Alpha-Max
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Ulti-Max
Light Oil Ball: DV8 Misfit
Preferred Company: Brunswick (@ the moment)
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Release Question

Post by MattyBiggz »

kajmk wrote: Matty, I think "and on my index finger and it's first knuckle where it meets my palm" is a big part of the improvement you've observed.

I agree with you, but I should have clarified. My accuracy has almost doubled by getting out on my toes more, and my index finger move has given me the better release/roll down the lane. It's AMAZING what such little things can do to your game, for the good OR bad.

Biggz
MattyBiggz
Columbus, Ohio
Avg: ~225 THS
High Game: 300 (4)
High Series: 809 (2)
Current Equip: Brunswick Ulti-Max, Alpha-Max, Karma Solid, Loaded Revolver, Wicked Siege, Damage, DV8 Misfit, Storm Crossroad, Storm Frantic, Storm IQ Tour Pearl, RotoGrip Golden Globe
DAVIDINIL
Member
Member
Posts: 145
Joined: October 10th, 2012, 1:32 am
THS Average: 228
Positive Axis Point: 5 right x 5/8 up
Speed: 18 CATS
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: storm

Re: Release Question

Post by DAVIDINIL »

You are on the right track Matty. Many elite PBA players have so much pressure on the base of the index finger, where it meets the palm, that they will develop blisters and callous there. A lot of players will put protective tape there.
Press the + button if you feel I've been helpful

Rev Rate - 350
Speed (CATS) - 17
Axis Tilt - 15
Axis Rotation - 30-60
Sport Shot Avg - 208
THS Avg - 229
Post Reply