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 Post subject: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:38 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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In Athery's thread from a few days ago Jim responded to this question below and it got me thinking.

JMerrell wrote:
ads wrote:
[b]Hi Jim,
Should we walk towards the same board at the foul time , or towards the target (the arrow, the exit point or the break point)? Too much information, read below as I will try to simplify alignment to the target.


First....we bowl in straight lines.
Correct set-up at address enables us to accomplish this.

1) Set-up with the head positioned over the outside of the non-slide foot.
2) Position the ball under the head and maintain the head / ball relationship throughout the approach and delivery.
3) This set-up aligns the head, ball and body down the intended target line.
4) Line up to the target based upon what the lane is giving up, not what the eye wants to see.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... rn_Release

Correctly positioning the head, ball and body at address relative to the non-slide foot in turn places the non-slide foot on the intended target line towards the break point.

Sequence:
1) Pick your break point
2) Pick you intermediate target (foul line, arrows)
3) Extend a line through these two points back to your starting position on the approach.
4) The center of the non-slide foot should be on this line.
5) The goal is to maintain the head /ball relationship set-up at address over this intended line throughout your approach and delivery.

As bowlers come in all shapes and sizes…..individual adjustments in set-up, alignment are necessary to maintain the head / ball relationship and project the ball down the intended target line.


Now in regards to mainly:

Sequence:
1) Pick your break point
2) Pick you intermediate target (foul line, arrows)
3) Extend a line through these two points back to your starting position on the approach.
4) The center of the non-slide foot should be on this line.
5) The goal is to maintain the head /ball relationship set-up at address over this intended line throughout your approach and delivery.

#4 says center of the non-slide foot should be on this line. Does this mean everyone should be lining up with the center of their non-slide foot?

I have seen and read many articles that references lining up with the inside of your slide foot. I also went and watched some video of prominent PBA members and they all appear to be lining up with their slide foot in some way. Now I also understand that many bowlers tend to have their slide foot facing straight at pins while their non-slide foot is set up in some way, shape or form at an angle to the pins. Is this the reason that the majority of players line up with their slide foot? Is there any reason not to line up with your non-slide foot?

I line up with my middle of my non-slide foot and have been told numerous times by numerous people I should change this but it doesn't feel comfortable to me to line up with my slide foot as I always feel too far right. My routine is to line up with my non-slide foot, place my slide foot next to my non-slide foot (heal barely touches front part of non-slide shoe) and then position my non-slide foot at an angle depending on what part of the lane I'm playing.

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 Post subject: Re: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:13 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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The main reason for lining up with your slide foot is so you can compare starting position with sliding position. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:26 am Post Number: #3 Post
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One piece of rationale is that in essence the non slide foot is replaced by the ball at the laydown point.
Over the years there have been different sources advising different feet and parts of the feet.
That was before the balance beam / tightrope footwork was noticed and taught.
But lining up as Jim prescribed would seem to help reinforce the swing slot going through the non slide leg and under/within the bowling shoulder, when coupled with proper stance, ball placement and adequate lateral shoulder tilt. I want to add that not every coach teaches exactly the same thing and that some folks are self taught.
Continue to do what works for you and only seek change when you are not satisfied with the results.
Aside from the obvious goal of striking and making spares, I'm told the goal is to make your best shot as much as you can.
Perhaps one of the bowling shows might canvass some world class bowlers as to how they do it and why.
For example, above180.com or let's go bowling.com.
Be that as it may, I'm sure Jim will reply.
I'm just chiming in with an opinion.

Forum member deanchamp has done a lot of video work and studied the games of elite bowlers.
Perhaps he can let us know what he thinks and has observed.

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 Post subject: Re: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:03 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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I line up (5-step) with my slide foot forward and toe tip on any board.
I lean right a bit by dropping mt right shoulder, chin over ball.
if I wan more speed I bring my ball up as high as the bottom of my chin,
Once I'm set I shift my weight to my right foot and sort of rear back a bit before I go,
I pushaway by pushing both arms out in frtnt of me conscious of my chin ball alignment,
at my pushaway for an instant before my backswing starts my body weight is on my right foot, 2nd step,
I keep hand grip and arm loose thru swing,
as I prep to release I make sure I get my slide foot under me,
slide and deliver with my wrist action.

this is what i'm aware of doing. the only thing I actually think about doing all this is get set, weight on right foot, rear back sort of rythmically, start left foot, pushaway.
as I walk to line, I focus pn my mark, head still, slide, follow thru.

once my slide stops, if I keep my head still, I just remain solid as my arm comes thru. I try to imagine my arm is the only thing moving and keep my head still at all costs as I finish my slide snd follow thru.


my release I just try to clear my thumb, and point it right or up depending on the amount of turn I want.

this keeps me from chicken-winging it.

if I forget about my thumb at release I am likely to miss my release feel..


the main things I thinl I really have to think about is when I start my first step and pushaway, slide, head still, clear & point thumb while bearing down as I follow thru head still.

this is a good review for me while i'm not on the lanes or doing at home drills.

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 Post subject: Re: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:50 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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I'm sure everyone lines up differently and to each their own. I most likely won't be changing anything since because what I have been doing works for me and I really think bowling is just as much about feel as it about anything else.

Now having said that what would be the best way to teach it?

Thinking about this a bit more...Would it be better to draw a line to the foul line (from your target to break point) and than know how you drift and calculate where you stand based off of that.

For instance you trace your line back to the foul line and find you want your lay down point at the 14 board. If I know I "drift" 6 board left (this is from lining up with right foot to where my slide foot ends up) and that my lay down point is 5 boards right of my slide foot.

So if my lay down point is 5 boards right of my slide foot I need to slide on 19. And since I "drift" 6 boards left in my approach I need to line up 13 with my non-slide foot.

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 Post subject: Re: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:04 am Post Number: #6 Post
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My approach has no drift. I also know since I line up with my left slide foot, my ball hits the lane 6-7 boards right of where I post at the foul line. therefore, I use 6.5 boards right of my slide as my laydown board.

i've gotten better at walking to a board also.
(crossing x number of boards to slide on a target board).

I end up a safe 6" from the foul line. I have medium revs and if speed doesnt work o have a higher rev release at a lower speed of about 13-14mph. I can go slower with a 3-step approach which is a whole different topic in itself.

the only thing I lack really is a high-speed high-rev release..

im just not sure I need that since I believe I have sufficient power and accuracy to score well.

I classify power as speed, accuracy and revs combo enough to move pins around or off the deck.

lining up and knowing what to look for from my ball downlane is still not always easy to do.

my goal is to be able to look at a bowler's ball reaction and look, including my own, and know if I will bowl good on any given day.

does anyone out here want to share what we should look for from our own or others ball reaction and tell if a bowler will be competitive on a given day or not?

what are we supposed to look for so we can make educated choices from our equipment?

rr

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speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.


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 Post subject: Re: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:45 am Post Number: #7 Post
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I line up with my eyes. I look to my target and just walk to it. With the ball allways under the chin the Looking Line = Playline. So far you keep the ball under the chin and keep the ball in the swingslot you hit your Line. Ajustments are pretty easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Lining up? (Question on JMerrel response)
 Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:43 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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jpolreis wrote:
#4 says center of the non-slide foot should be on this line. Does this mean everyone should be lining up with the center of their non-slide foot?

I have seen and read many articles that references lining up with the inside of your slide foot. I also went and watched some video of prominent PBA members and they all appear to be lining up with their slide foot in some way. Now I also understand that many bowlers tend to have their slide foot facing straight at pins while their non-slide foot is set up in some way, shape or form at an angle to the pins. Is this the reason that the majority of players line up with their slide foot? Is there any reason not to line up with your non-slide foot?


The first thing I will say is that at a guess every bowler has a different sense of how they line up and target and why it works for them, and I think it would be best for Jim to explain his ideas (although i think it will be along the lines of what John said, in that the ball swings through this space once the right foot steps in front of the left).

Relating to what you wrote above, i think you made a good point that i have highlighted. I have attached some info about what Fagan does with his feet and head in relation to his swing plane and where the ball goes after the release. Barnes also opens up his right foot in his stance as he gets deeper inside, although he walks in a straight line from where his left foot starts (whereas Fagan ends up about 7 boards left of where his left foot starts).

What Fagan, Rash, Weber and many others do is step further left on their 3rd step. At the same time they are leaning further to the right with their upper body which keeps their head (and right eye) over their target line. This move left on their 3rd step i'd assume would shift where their target line begins from their right foot across to their left foot, whereas someone like Barnes without the move left would be releasing the ball closer to the line on where his right foot started.

Like i said at the start, i would think that targeting will vary for most bowlers depending on how straight they walk on the approach, how much they lean to the ball side and how straight their swing plane is. Though this is just observation and conjecture, not fact.


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