Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Which layout is right for me?

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todvan
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Posts: 116
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 9:55 pm
THS Average: 200
Location: Michigan

Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by todvan »

What hand you bowl with Left
Speed (please specify if its on the monitor or at the foul line) 15-16 mph at the line
Rev Rate 240-250
Initial Axis Rotation 60-65 degrees
Initial Axis Tilt 15-18 degrees
What surface you want the ball for (wood or synthetic) Synthetic
What lane condition you are bowling on most of the time Med/Hvy 40-41 ft THS
Do you think you are speed or revolutions dominate? Balanced or slightly speed dominant

I am looking to add a ball for longer or medium heavy oil. I am back from a number of years off and have a Morich Total Anihilation and an Ebonite Apex Adrenaline. The adrenaline goes a little longer and has more recovery. I can play the THS with these balls if I go straight up 7 or 8.

Any ball and layout advice is appreciated! Thanks!
Left Handed, 15 lb
PAP 4.5” up 1/2"
~60* rotation
~17* tilt
~250 RPM
~15 mph off hand
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by EricHartwell »

todvan wrote:What hand you bowl with Left
Speed (please specify if its on the monitor or at the foul line) 15-16 mph at the line
Rev Rate 240-250
Initial Axis Rotation 60-65 degrees
Initial Axis Tilt 15-18 degrees
What surface you want the ball for (wood or synthetic) Synthetic
What lane condition you are bowling on most of the time Med/Hvy 40-41 ft THS
Do you think you are speed or revolutions dominate? Balanced or slightly speed dominant

I am looking to add a ball for longer or medium heavy oil. I am back from a number of years off and have a Morich Total Anihilation and an Ebonite Apex Adrenaline. The adrenaline goes a little longer and has more recovery. I can play the THS with these balls if I go straight up 7 or 8.

Any ball and layout advice is appreciated! Thanks!
Welcome back to bowling and to BowlingChat

Good job listing all your stats I would suggest listing them in your signature for future reference. It makes is easy when discussing layouts

I like to start by figuring your benchmark
1:1 ratio 90* totals 45-4-45 Asymmetrical, xx-4-40 Bal hole 2" down on VAL for Symmetrical

I would start with a Benchmark drilling then add to it by adjusting layouts from your benchmark.
Also the benchmark is a strong drilling for THS and I'm thinking that is what you are looking for. In the future stronger than benchmark is always a possibility.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
todvan
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 9:55 pm
THS Average: 200
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by todvan »

Thanks for the response Eric!

From the reading on the Wiki, 90* is what I was thinking also. I am looking for earlier roll, since my tilt and rotation are on the higher side of normal - correct?

Is there a class of ball you would recommend as a benchmark? I am liking the sound of hybrid covers (I favor more controlled reaction - pearls are too skid/snap for me), maybe symmetrical? The radical yeti, rotogrip defiant soul, upcoming storm IQ fusion, hammer absolut curve all are what I have been looking at so far....what do you think?
Left Handed, 15 lb
PAP 4.5” up 1/2"
~60* rotation
~17* tilt
~250 RPM
~15 mph off hand
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by EricHartwell »

I would recommend an Asymmetrical for your benchmark.
I don't sell bowling balls so I really don't like to choose them for others. My brand of choice is obvious, Hammer.

As far as your tilt and rotation... your in a good place with 1:1 ratio as a benchmark, you have lots of drilling options.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
todvan
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 9:55 pm
THS Average: 200
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by todvan »

Sounds good. I am studying the dual angle info and will post what my old balls are set up like - hopefully I can keep one or both around for medium/dry part of the arsenal.
Left Handed, 15 lb
PAP 4.5” up 1/2"
~60* rotation
~17* tilt
~250 RPM
~15 mph off hand
todvan
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 9:55 pm
THS Average: 200
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by todvan »

Dual Angle Question:

If the sum of the angles is 90*, does that mean that the mass bias or PSA is always straight down from the pin - what used to be called 'stacked' ? Thanks.
Left Handed, 15 lb
PAP 4.5” up 1/2"
~60* rotation
~17* tilt
~250 RPM
~15 mph off hand
todvan
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 9:55 pm
THS Average: 200
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by todvan »

I figured out the answer....no, only stacked if both angles are the same.....right?

Plus, here is what I measured out on my old balls:

Morich Total Anihilation: ~ 30 x 3 x 50 with a P 1.5 balance hole.

This ball rolls earlier, but does not like to swing - has trouble coming back. I think I will keep it very dull and use it on outside line shots with fresh oil.

Ebonite Apex Adrenaline: ~ 50 x 3.5 x 45 with a P 1.5 balance hole.

This ball goes longer but has better recovery. Too long for anything more than medium oil / length unless I rough it up. Is it worth re-drilling to put the pin higher (lower Val angle) and make it my med/dry lanes ball - in case I see this condition at upcoming state tournament?

I am planning on buying a benchmark ball soon. Thanks for your help, my pro shop is always too busy to help much.
Left Handed, 15 lb
PAP 4.5” up 1/2"
~60* rotation
~17* tilt
~250 RPM
~15 mph off hand
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by EricHartwell »

The Total Annihilation 30-3-50 P1.5.... I would look into the feasibility of plugging the P1.5, drilling the middle finger deeper and put in a P2.5/P3 to make it a little stronger.
And yes keep it dull. 800grit was the factory finish

The Apex Adrenaline ~ 50-3.5-45 P1.5....I think if you were to shine it progressively up to 4000 you have your med/dry ball.

The benchmark should fit right in between what you have.

Are your existing balls' layouts optimum? Not really but usable, imo, until you want to replace them

If I were looking for a ball above and below my benchmark 1:1 ratio 90* total 45-4-45 Asym

above benchmark
....Totally strong...........1.5:1 ratio 70* total 40-4-30 Asym, xx-4-25 Sym.....
....Midlane ..................1:1.5 ratio 70* total 30-4.5-40 Asym, xx-3.5-35 bal hole 2" down Sym
below benchmark
....long and strong.......1.5:1 ratio 110* total 65-4-45 Asym, xx-4.5-40 Symmetrical
....Control...................1:1.5 ratio 110* total 45-3-65 Asym, xx-5-60 Symmetrical

Keep in mind ball choice (coverstock) is really important in making the layouts work as intended
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
todvan
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 9:55 pm
THS Average: 200
Location: Michigan

Re: Long layoff - arsenal rebuild

Post by todvan »

Thanks Eric for all of your help! Happy New Year!

Tod
Left Handed, 15 lb
PAP 4.5” up 1/2"
~60* rotation
~17* tilt
~250 RPM
~15 mph off hand
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