Dear group,
I would like your input on what ball I need to fill a void in my arsenal. I bowl in a mix league at Brunswick National in Augusta, Georgia. The first third of the lane surface is a new synthetic surface while the last two thirds is an old synthetic lane surface.
After reading the many articles on this website I decided to recheck my PAP location and other stats with a video camera. The video analysis was far different than the visual one of 6 years ago, and it was also different depending on the ball used also. First I used an old Black Hammer and my PAP location ended up at 6 7/16" x 7/16" up. (I am right handed) When I checked it with a Roto Grip Mercury and a Roto Grip RSP the PAP ends up at 5 13/16" x 5/8" up. My RPM's as determined by using 10 frames of video end up at 390 RPM's with the Mercury and RSP, and 420 RPM's with the Black Hammer. My speed as calculated from the foul line to the 15 foot mark (base of the third arrow) is 15.38 MPH.
My arsenal and layouts (after recalculating my stats) are as follows:
Main ball that I use and get the best carry at this center with is a Roto Grip Mercury. I call this ball the Mercury 4:
60* x 4 7/8" x 42.5* [orignal layout based on PAP at 5 1/8" x 3/16" up was 49* x 4 9/16" x 36*)
The next ball hooks 3 to 4 boards less is another Roto Grip Mercury. I call this ball the Mercury 5:
53* x 5 7/8" x 43.5* [ original layout was 42* x 5 9/16" x 40*]
The next ball hooks 3 boards more than the first and is a Roto Grip RSP. I call this ball the RSP:
68.5* x 5 3/16" x 25.5* [ original layout was 57* x 5 5/16" x 22*]
The spare ball is the Black Hammer.:
pin in with the label in the center of the grip. specs were 1/4 oz negative, 1/4 thumb, 1 oz top.
This is my experience from last week's league on a typical house shot. I can play the lanes with the Black Hammer straight up 9 with my slide foot's inside edge next to the 16th board to start. But within a couple frames carry down affects carry too much for a good ball reaction while using it in league. Works great in practice when I am the only bowler, so I thought I would try it since the backend reaction seemed too strong for the Mercury 4 this night. Shot 205 with no opens.
That did not work as I hoped so for Game two I used the Mercury 5. I had to move my feet 10 boards left standing next to board 26 and play around the third arrow with a break point around 7 at 40 feet. Again ball reaction was not good. The Mercury 5 just did not seem to hit hard enough to carry and after leaving a pocket 7-10 it was time to use the Mercury 4. Shot 205 again.
Game three used the Mercury 4. Started my feet at board 33 and ended the night standing at 38. Got a good reaction but was hoping not to have to play this much hook even though I shot 268.
The point of all of this is to find something in between the Mercury 5 and the Black Hammer that still reacts good enough on the backend to carry. Any suggestions
Thank you in advance,
Daryl
Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Member
- Posts: 206
- Joined: January 10th, 2012, 5:02 pm
- THS Average: 226
- Positive Axis Point: 5 13/16 x 5/16 up
- Speed: 15.38 at foul line
- Rev Rate: 390
- Axis Tilt: 18
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Location: Augusta, Georgia
Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
Right Handed Stats:
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
-
- Member
- Posts: 206
- Joined: January 10th, 2012, 5:02 pm
- THS Average: 226
- Positive Axis Point: 5 13/16 x 5/16 up
- Speed: 15.38 at foul line
- Rev Rate: 390
- Axis Tilt: 18
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Location: Augusta, Georgia
Re: Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
Dear Group,
Sorry I forgot to mention axis rotation and tilt:
My axis rotation is 55*.
My axis tilt is about 18*
Sorry I forgot to mention axis rotation and tilt:
My axis rotation is 55*.
My axis tilt is about 18*
Right Handed Stats:
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
Re: Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
How did you measure your axis tilt? Did you use a Pro Sect and measure your track diameter? A 6 7/16" PAP with 18* tilt seems a little odd. Not saying that it is not possible but seem a bit high with that PAP.
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
- Member
- Posts: 206
- Joined: January 10th, 2012, 5:02 pm
- THS Average: 226
- Positive Axis Point: 5 13/16 x 5/16 up
- Speed: 15.38 at foul line
- Rev Rate: 390
- Axis Tilt: 18
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Location: Augusta, Georgia
Re: Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
I measured the axis tilt by measuring the diameter of the first oil ring. On the Black Hammer that seems to have the PAP at 6 7/16" x 7/16" up the oil ring diameter was around 11" and ran parallel to the grip line close to the middle finger hole.
Since this seems to be an odd set of specs I did some video on the reactive balls I typically use namely the Roto Grip Mercury, Roto Grip RSP, and the Roto Grip RSX. Oil line diameter is consistently at 10 3/4" and the PAP is at 5 13/16" x 5/16" up. Thus it appears that I throw the Black Hammer differently than other balls. I do not know why, but it does feel easier to rotate around that ball as I release it. I use to track over the finger hole with this ball years ago, but I no longer do.
So with a track diameter of 10 3/4" the axis tilt is around 18* if my math is correct, and the video graph analysis looks like that is correct as well.
Since this seems to be an odd set of specs I did some video on the reactive balls I typically use namely the Roto Grip Mercury, Roto Grip RSP, and the Roto Grip RSX. Oil line diameter is consistently at 10 3/4" and the PAP is at 5 13/16" x 5/16" up. Thus it appears that I throw the Black Hammer differently than other balls. I do not know why, but it does feel easier to rotate around that ball as I release it. I use to track over the finger hole with this ball years ago, but I no longer do.
So with a track diameter of 10 3/4" the axis tilt is around 18* if my math is correct, and the video graph analysis looks like that is correct as well.
Right Handed Stats:
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 3432
- Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
- Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
- Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
- Axis Tilt: 13
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Re: Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
Are you sure you followed the first oil oil ring all the way around the ball? Remember, when you pass the track's bowtie the outside ring on the side close to the holes becomes the inside ring on the other side of the ball. If you want to be sure you've got it right, sand the ball with 1000 grit Abralon and then throw it in the area of the lane that has the most oil. The oil rings should be very plain. -- JohnP
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
The black Hammer has very little if any flare. The newer balls' PAP has migrated before it even hit the floor thus the different PAP measurements.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 206
- Joined: January 10th, 2012, 5:02 pm
- THS Average: 226
- Positive Axis Point: 5 13/16 x 5/16 up
- Speed: 15.38 at foul line
- Rev Rate: 390
- Axis Tilt: 18
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Location: Augusta, Georgia
Re: Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
I did indeed use the first oil ring on all balls checked as recommended above. The oil rings are very obvious. So group any suggestions on what ball would be a good choice to fill the gap in between the Black Hammer and Roto Grip Mercury?
Note that other bowling balls I have are the Columbia Black U Dot, which hooks as much as the Mercury. It just has less hitting power.
I have an Ebonite Show Time (73 x 5" x 40), which also seems to hook as much as the Mercury, but does not carry as well at the center I now bowl at.
I do have another Ebonite Show Time with 1.5" pin that I am going to drill up. I was thinking of a 60 x 4" x 60 layout. I also have a Storm Tropical Storm with a 5 7/8" pin. I was thinking of a 50 x 4" x 50 layout and than use a balance hole to fine tune the reaction.
Note that other bowling balls I have are the Columbia Black U Dot, which hooks as much as the Mercury. It just has less hitting power.
I have an Ebonite Show Time (73 x 5" x 40), which also seems to hook as much as the Mercury, but does not carry as well at the center I now bowl at.
I do have another Ebonite Show Time with 1.5" pin that I am going to drill up. I was thinking of a 60 x 4" x 60 layout. I also have a Storm Tropical Storm with a 5 7/8" pin. I was thinking of a 50 x 4" x 50 layout and than use a balance hole to fine tune the reaction.
Right Handed Stats:
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Ball Choice and Layout recommendation
I'd start with a pink & purple Karma. Use 4" pin to PAP and a 45* VAL angle. Change surface to get the hook you're looking for.Daryl wrote:Dear group,
I would like your input on what ball I need to fill a void in my arsenal. I bowl in a mix league at Brunswick National in Augusta, Georgia. The first third of the lane surface is a new synthetic surface while the last two thirds is an old synthetic lane surface.
After reading the many articles on this website I decided to recheck my PAP location and other stats with a video camera. The video analysis was far different than the visual one of 6 years ago, and it was also different depending on the ball used also. First I used an old Black Hammer and my PAP location ended up at 6 7/16" x 7/16" up. (I am right handed) When I checked it with a Roto Grip Mercury and a Roto Grip RSP the PAP ends up at 5 13/16" x 5/8" up. My RPM's as determined by using 10 frames of video end up at 390 RPM's with the Mercury and RSP, and 420 RPM's with the Black Hammer. My speed as calculated from the foul line to the 15 foot mark (base of the third arrow) is 15.38 MPH.
My arsenal and layouts (after recalculating my stats) are as follows:
Main ball that I use and get the best carry at this center with is a Roto Grip Mercury. I call this ball the Mercury 4:
60* x 4 7/8" x 42.5* [orignal layout based on PAP at 5 1/8" x 3/16" up was 49* x 4 9/16" x 36*)
The next ball hooks 3 to 4 boards less is another Roto Grip Mercury. I call this ball the Mercury 5:
53* x 5 7/8" x 43.5* [ original layout was 42* x 5 9/16" x 40*]
The next ball hooks 3 boards more than the first and is a Roto Grip RSP. I call this ball the RSP:
68.5* x 5 3/16" x 25.5* [ original layout was 57* x 5 5/16" x 22*]
The spare ball is the Black Hammer.:
pin in with the label in the center of the grip. specs were 1/4 oz negative, 1/4 thumb, 1 oz top.
This is my experience from last week's league on a typical house shot. I can play the lanes with the Black Hammer straight up 9 with my slide foot's inside edge next to the 16th board to start. But within a couple frames carry down affects carry too much for a good ball reaction while using it in league. Works great in practice when I am the only bowler, so I thought I would try it since the backend reaction seemed too strong for the Mercury 4 this night. Shot 205 with no opens.
That did not work as I hoped so for Game two I used the Mercury 5. I had to move my feet 10 boards left standing next to board 26 and play around the third arrow with a break point around 7 at 40 feet. Again ball reaction was not good. The Mercury 5 just did not seem to hit hard enough to carry and after leaving a pocket 7-10 it was time to use the Mercury 4. Shot 205 again.
Game three used the Mercury 4. Started my feet at board 33 and ended the night standing at 38. Got a good reaction but was hoping not to have to play this much hook even though I shot 268.
The point of all of this is to find something in between the Mercury 5 and the Black Hammer that still reacts good enough on the backend to carry. Any suggestions
Thank you in advance,
Daryl
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)