Hook/Set Layout

Which layout is right for me?

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Motogp69
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Hook/Set Layout

Post by Motogp69 »

My friend bowls for a collegiate team and has the same specs in terms of span and thumb, and I was able to throw his evil siege which has a hook set layout. Most of his stuff for sport patterns is drilled for this type of ball reaction. What are the benefits of this layout, and can you suggest a layout from my stats that will give me a similiar reaction.

Thanks

Here are my stats:
Ball Speed: 18.5 mph (in the heads)
Rev Rate: 450 rpm
PAP: 4 7/8 over 1/2 up
Axis Rotation: 45 deg
Axis Tilt: 3 deg
elgavachon
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by elgavachon »

I'm not sure what a hook-set reaction is. It sounds like you want the ball to hook a little early and then have a very gradual backend motion (almost appearing to roll out but not actually doing that). If that is the reaction you are looking for, I would guess you could change your ratios. Looks to me like you should be using 3:1 to 2:1 ratios with shorter pins on assymmetrical balls to retain your tilt. Probably the reaction you are requesting would require lowering your drilling angles and raising your val angles. Because of your rev dominance, you are probably using around 115* total angle sums. My guess is you would keep your sums the same, and decrease your ratios. You might want to describe more in detail exactly what the reaction is you are looking for in case this is not it.
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by kellytehuna »

Hook-set is the classic Chris Barnes reaction. The ball just checks up REAL hard then stops hooking. That is just a REALLY short second transition. I would say your ratios and totals are about right though.

You are slightly rev dominant, with extremely low tilt and medium rotation, which would put your total at about 110°. The extremely low tilt will require very short pins (< 3") and higher ratios (3:1 - 2:1) to maintain your tilt, as elgavachon has already mention. I would say the layout you want would be something like 85° / 2.5 / 25°. You could even get away with 75° / 2.5 / 20°. If you add a P4 hole, that would make the ball read the dry a lot harder, though you run the risk of rolling out pretty early.

As always, way for Mo or someone else with a little more knowledge with this stuff. I would say something in that general ball park will fit the bill though.
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by elgavachon »

kellytehuna wrote:Hook-set is the classic Chris Barnes reaction. The ball just checks up REAL hard then stops hooking. That is just a REALLY short second transition. I would say your ratios and totals are about right though.

You are slightly rev dominant, with extremely low tilt and medium rotation, which would put your total at about 110°. The extremely low tilt will require very short pins (< 3") and higher ratios (3:1 - 2:1) to maintain your tilt, as elgavachon has already mention. I would say the layout you want would be something like 85° / 2.5 / 25°. You could even get away with 75° / 2.5 / 20°. If you add a P4 hole, that would make the ball read the dry a lot harder, though you run the risk of rolling out pretty early.

As always, way for Mo or someone else with a little more knowledge with this stuff. I would say something in that general ball park will fit the bill though.
your Mass Bias will be in or to the left of your thumbhole more than likely, so you could drill it deeper or use P3 if this is the reaction you are looking for.
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by Motogp69 »

kellytehuna wrote:Hook-set is the classic Chris Barnes reaction. The ball just checks up REAL hard then stops hooking. That is just a REALLY short second transition. I would say your ratios and totals are about right though.

You are slightly rev dominant, with extremely low tilt and medium rotation, which would put your total at about 110°. The extremely low tilt will require very short pins (< 3") and higher ratios (3:1 - 2:1) to maintain your tilt, as elgavachon has already mention. I would say the layout you want would be something like 85° / 2.5 / 25°. You could even get away with 75° / 2.5 / 20°. If you add a P4 hole, that would make the ball read the dry a lot harder, though you run the risk of rolling out pretty early.

As always, way for Mo or someone else with a little more knowledge with this stuff. I would say something in that general ball park will fit the bill though.
This is exactly what I"m looking for. I want the ball to read the midlane, and then drive towards the pocket with forward roll.

To get a hook set reaction, it's best to use balls with higher degrees of asymmetry and not balls that are symmetrical pre-drilling?
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by cgeorg »

Hook-set is all about shortening the second transition, which asymmetricals are better for. Specifically, you want a higher diff ratio (intermediate diff/total diff).
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by Mo Pinel »

Motogp69 wrote:My friend bowls for a collegiate team and has the same specs in terms of span and thumb, and I was able to throw his evil siege which has a hook set layout. Most of his stuff for sport patterns is drilled for this type of ball reaction. What are the benefits of this layout, and can you suggest a layout from my stats that will give me a similiar reaction.

Thanks

Here are my stats:
Ball Speed: 18.5 mph (in the heads)
Rev Rate: 450 rpm
PAP: 4 7/8 over 1/2 up
Axis Rotation: 45 deg
Axis Tilt: 3 deg
Your stats are very conducive to a "hook/set" reaction. For those not in the know, "hook/set" means a very short hook zone with a long roll phase. For you, because of your low rotation and tilt, pin to PAP distances of 3 1/2" to 4 1/2" on asymmetricals and pin to PAP distances 3" to 4" on symmetricals will work with VAL angles of 30* to 40* to create an effective "hook/set" reaction for you.
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Motogp69
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by Motogp69 »

Mo Pinel wrote: Your stats are very conducive to a "hook/set" reaction. For those not in the know, "hook/set" means a very short hook zone with a long roll phase. For you, because of your low rotation and tilt, pin to PAP distances of 3 1/2" to 4 1/2" on asymmetricals and pin to PAP distances 3" to 4" on symmetricals will work with VAL angles of 30* to 40* to create an effective "hook/set" reaction for you.
Is there a specific drilling angle? Or does the drilling angle I choose just kind of depend on where I want the ball to hook/set? For example a hook/set with my normal dual angle layout puts me at 70, but if I need something earlier I could use a 50?

Thanks
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Re: Hook/Set Layout

Post by Mo Pinel »

Motogp69 wrote: Is there a specific drilling angle? Or does the drilling angle I choose just kind of depend on where I want the ball to hook/set? For example a hook/set with my normal dual angle layout puts me at 70, but if I need something earlier I could use a 50?

Thanks

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