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 Post subject: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusion
 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:41 am Post Number: #1 Post
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I got a used Motiv Cruel from someone who didn't like it. If I was to plug and re-drill the thumb the layout will be 65 x 3 3/4 x 60 P2 hole. If I was to plug fingers and thumb I'm thinking I would give it my benchmark layout 65 x 3 1/4 x 40 P2 or my control layout 75 x 3 1/4 x 50 P2. Im am even thinking of long and strong 90 x 3 1/4 x 35 P2. I’m hoping to get opinions from Mo, JustinWi, or anyone else who has experience with this ball. I am open to suggestions

my stats:
RH
350 rpm
18 mph
45* rotation
10* tilt
pap 5 1/2 over 1 up



Last edited by TOP5 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:05 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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TOP5 wrote:
I got a used Motiv Cruel from someone who didn't like it. If I was to plug and re-drill the thumb the layout will be 65 x 3 3/4 x 60 P2 hole. If I was to plug fingers and thumb I'm thinking I would give it my benchmark layout 65 x 3 1/4 x 40 P2 or my control layout 75 x 3 1/4 x 50 P2. Im am even thinking of long and strong 90 x 3 1/4 x 35 P2. I’m hoping to get opinions from Mo, JustinWi, or anyone else who has experience with this ball. I am open to suggestions

my stats:
RH
350 rpm
18 mph
45* rotation
10* tilt
pap 5 1/2 over 1 up



JustinWi is our Motiv guy! Help Justin!


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:26 am Post Number: #3 Post
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bump


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:29 am Post Number: #4 Post
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You may want to PM him.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:33 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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I spent the last week in Alabama dodging Tornadoes, sorry for the delay.

60x30@3" has been extremely successful on the Cruel, as well as 70x50@5.5". Former for smoother reaction, latter for more tip on the back.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:27 am Post Number: #6 Post
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JustinWi wrote:
I spent the last week in Alabama dodging Tornadoes, sorry for the delay.

60x30@3" has been extremely successful on the Cruel, as well as 70x50@5.5". Former for smoother reaction, latter for more tip on the back.


Thanks justin for your response. I have a question about the 70x50@5.5 layout. I don't understand the 5.5 pin to pap. with my release stats being what they are would that pin position get my ball rolling forward too early? I thought longer pin distances on asymmetrical cores are for higher tilt players. is there something I am missing? others are welcomed to chime in too if they want


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:48 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Just from personal experience, I prefer going with shorter pin distances on 'big dog' equipment like the cruel. 2.5-3.5 inch Pin to Pap, with 1.75-2:1 ratios. Of course each person is as different as the houses we bowl in.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:51 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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If you dont know what you want out of it, use your asymmetric benchmark and tune it with a gradient line balance hole and surface..

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:30 am Post Number: #9 Post
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350/18 is a bit speed dominant, quick tilt burn might get the 10pin out and transition itself a bit better on oil than something that retains longer and hits in the roll stage.

Those 2 layouts mentioned have had the most success over time, pick which one you feel more comfortable with and punch some holes. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:16 am Post Number: #10 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
If you dont know what you want out of it, use your asymmetric benchmark and tune it with a gradient line balance hole and surface..
StrikeTheory wrote:
Just from personal experience, I prefer going with shorter pin distances on 'big dog' equipment like the cruel. 2.5-3.5 inch Pin to Pap, with 1.75-2:1 ratios. Of course each person is as different as the houses we bowl in.
JustinWi wrote:
I spent the last week in Alabama dodging Tornadoes, sorry for the delay.

60x30@3" has been extremely successful on the Cruel, as well as 70x50@5.5". Former for smoother reaction, latter for more tip on the back.
JustinWi wrote:
350/18 is a bit speed dominant, quick tilt burn might get the 10pin out and transition itself a bit better on oil than something that retains longer and hits in the roll stage.

Those 2 layouts mentioned have had the most success over time, pick which one you feel more comfortable with and punch some holes. :)


I will get the ball plugged and during that time I will make a decision on how to punch it thanks for your advise everybody. I will report back after I throw it


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout discussion
 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:20 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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JustinWi wrote:
350/18 is a bit speed dominant


according to the Dual Angle Sweetspot Guide pdf in the wiki 350/18 would be a bit rev dominant. There is a also the Dual Angle Sweetspot summary in the wiki and according to that 350/18 is balanced. I layout my equipment based on an angle sum of 110 and adjust from there. I am curious as to why we come up with something different. is there new info on the relationship between speed and revolutions. If there a different method I should be using I would like to know.

others may comment too if they want


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
 Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:24 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Memory is saying 17/350 at the hand as balanced, I'll have to double check on that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
 Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:49 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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350/18 is matched.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
 Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:39 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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kellytehuna wrote:
350/18 is matched.


I wholeheartedly agree!


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
 Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:36 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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I stand corrected, updating the old memory bank :)


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