This response has inspired me to start a "Mo Says" page in Word. As I find other helpful hints I'll add them to the page and keep it for reference. If anyone has similar quotes please either post them here or provide the link and I'll add them to my page. If requested I'll try to figure out how to add a page to the wiki for others to use. -- JohnPYou've got it right. On asyms., use pin to PAP distances of 2 3/4" to 4" to get the ball to change direction and read friction. Use 4" to 5" pin to PAP distances when you want to play straighter.
Mo Says
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Mo Says
From: viewtopic.php?t=4750" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by JohnP on February 21st, 2013, 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mo Says
Great idea. You might include a reference as well, such as: in response to question regarding pap to pin for low tilt, high rotation, 400 rpm, 18mph bowler.
- Mo Pinel
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Re: Mo Says
JohnP wrote: This response has inspired me to start a "Mo Says" page in Word. As I find other helpful hints I'll add them to the page and keep it for reference. If anyone has similar quotes please either post them here or provide the link and I'll add them to my page. If requested I'll try to figure out how to add a page to the wiki for others to use. -- JohnP
That quote was for low tilt bowlers. For high tilt bowlers, don't use 3" to 4" pin to PAPs on asyms. unless there's lots of friction, or you're using a ton of surface with a big, strong balance hole. Use 4" to 5" pin to PAPs to read friction and 5" to 6" pin to PAPs to play straight. Another example of the need for accurate delivery specs.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
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Re: Mo Says
Modified the first quote and added the second. -- JohnP
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Re: Mo Says
Re: Mo Says:
Hide the F'n polish........
Hide the F'n polish........
- EricHartwell
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- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
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Re: Mo Says
Hand grenades at 20 paces
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Re: Mo Says
I'm really looking for succinct technical information instead of "Moisms". -- JohnP
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Re: Mo Says
What do we have here? A "local legend in his own mind" perhaps?
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Re: Mo Says
BOWLING WELL IS RELATED TO EFFICIENCY, NOT EXERTION!
Right Handed
MF - 4 1/8, 1/4 L, 1/8 Rev.
RF - 4 5/16, 5/8 R, 3/8 Rev.
Thumb - 3 1/8" Long, 7/16 Rev, 1/8 R, 47 Deg. oval (27/32 x 1)
PAP: 5 3/4 x 3/4 up
Speed: 18.0 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Rot: 70
Axis Tilt: 3
MF - 4 1/8, 1/4 L, 1/8 Rev.
RF - 4 5/16, 5/8 R, 3/8 Rev.
Thumb - 3 1/8" Long, 7/16 Rev, 1/8 R, 47 Deg. oval (27/32 x 1)
PAP: 5 3/4 x 3/4 up
Speed: 18.0 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Rot: 70
Axis Tilt: 3
Re: Mo Says
Mo says: "There's no IQ test in bowling"
"Observe, Adjust, and Overcome."
- Jim J.
Manager, Pro Shop Operator
Best Bowl - Selinsgrove, PA
- Jim J.
Manager, Pro Shop Operator
Best Bowl - Selinsgrove, PA
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Re: Mo Says
Ok, but you might want to start an extra one with the Mo-isms!JohnP wrote:I'm really looking for succinct technical information instead of "Moisms". -- JohnP
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Re: Mo Says
This quote taken from viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4557&p=36474#p36474" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see # 19)
ALL bowling balls with migrate along the RG contour of the Bowler's PAP. That's governed by the laws of the universe. Therefore, in order to create a unique migration path, you must create a unique RG contour for that ball. ALL balls have RG contours that use the low and high RG axis as the centroid for the RG contours. The higher the differential ratio, the more of the RG contours that are centered around the high RG axis, and the flatter those ellipses. That's just pure science and math.
ALL bowling balls with migrate along the RG contour of the Bowler's PAP. That's governed by the laws of the universe. Therefore, in order to create a unique migration path, you must create a unique RG contour for that ball. ALL balls have RG contours that use the low and high RG axis as the centroid for the RG contours. The higher the differential ratio, the more of the RG contours that are centered around the high RG axis, and the flatter those ellipses. That's just pure science and math.
- IShot811
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- Heavy Oil Ball: Track 916AT (45 @ 4" x 35)
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Re: Mo Says
We need more like this...
Mo Pinel wrote:When the fingers are over 3" deep, don't go any deeper than 2 3/4" on the balance hole! The holes will meet, if you drill the balance hole too deep.
John
Tidewater Virginia USBC Association Director
HS-811, HG-300(3), 299(5), 11 in-a-row(4)
Ball Speed - 14.5 by monitor
RevRate - 250-275
Axis Tilt - 4°
Axis Rotation - 45°
PAP - 5 1/2"> 7/8"^
Tidewater Virginia USBC Association Director
HS-811, HG-300(3), 299(5), 11 in-a-row(4)
Ball Speed - 14.5 by monitor
RevRate - 250-275
Axis Tilt - 4°
Axis Rotation - 45°
PAP - 5 1/2"> 7/8"^
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Re: Mo Says
ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY! -- JohnP
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Re: Mo Says
Mo Pinel wrote:
Staying behind the ball causes it to track high. Specifically, lack of axis tilt. Staying in the thumb too long causes it to track very close to the thumb. That's the real skinny.
Right Handed
MF - 4 1/8, 1/4 L, 1/8 Rev.
RF - 4 5/16, 5/8 R, 3/8 Rev.
Thumb - 3 1/8" Long, 7/16 Rev, 1/8 R, 47 Deg. oval (27/32 x 1)
PAP: 5 3/4 x 3/4 up
Speed: 18.0 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Rot: 70
Axis Tilt: 3
MF - 4 1/8, 1/4 L, 1/8 Rev.
RF - 4 5/16, 5/8 R, 3/8 Rev.
Thumb - 3 1/8" Long, 7/16 Rev, 1/8 R, 47 Deg. oval (27/32 x 1)
PAP: 5 3/4 x 3/4 up
Speed: 18.0 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Rot: 70
Axis Tilt: 3
- IShot811
- Member
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- Joined: August 9th, 2011, 12:55 pm
- THS Average: 210
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up 7/8
- Speed: 18 video
- Rev Rate: 250
- Axis Tilt: 3
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Track 916AT (45 @ 4" x 35)
- Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Onyx Vibe (37 @ 5 1/8" x 68)
- Light Oil Ball: Track 300C (65 @ 5" x 32)
- Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: Mo Says
Mo Pinel wrote:Don't worry about the cg. No problem. CGs don't mean a thing (to) ball motion as long as the ball has legal statics. .... NEVER put balance holes below the thumb. Too much of a chance of flaring over it.
John
Tidewater Virginia USBC Association Director
HS-811, HG-300(3), 299(5), 11 in-a-row(4)
Ball Speed - 14.5 by monitor
RevRate - 250-275
Axis Tilt - 4°
Axis Rotation - 45°
PAP - 5 1/2"> 7/8"^
Tidewater Virginia USBC Association Director
HS-811, HG-300(3), 299(5), 11 in-a-row(4)
Ball Speed - 14.5 by monitor
RevRate - 250-275
Axis Tilt - 4°
Axis Rotation - 45°
PAP - 5 1/2"> 7/8"^
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- Trusted Source
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- Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
- Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
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Re: Mo Says
With Scotch Brite pads, it's all about the pressure you use with the pad. Burgundy results in 400 to 800 depending on the pressure. Grey results in 800 to 1500, again, depending on the pressure used.
Using scuff pads is not an exact science, but this is usually done during practice when the ball you want to use is not reacting enough. After the bowling is done, I always recommend using a spinner to return the ball to its' normal surface.
Using scuff pads is not an exact science, but this is usually done during practice when the ball you want to use is not reacting enough. After the bowling is done, I always recommend using a spinner to return the ball to its' normal surface.
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- Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Re: Mo Says
From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On a symmetrical ball drilled without a balance hole, the PSA (high RG) axis ends up very near the thumb. That puts the PAP near the intermediate RG axis on a vast majority of bowlers. Putting a balance hole in the PAP, which is near the int. RG axis, raises the RG of the int. RG axis. That decreases the int. diff., which makes the ball more symmetrical. That's what blueprint's excellent attachment shows. This explanation is for those who have math phobia.
On a symmetrical ball drilled without a balance hole, the PSA (high RG) axis ends up very near the thumb. That puts the PAP near the intermediate RG axis on a vast majority of bowlers. Putting a balance hole in the PAP, which is near the int. RG axis, raises the RG of the int. RG axis. That decreases the int. diff., which makes the ball more symmetrical. That's what blueprint's excellent attachment shows. This explanation is for those who have math phobia.
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- Trusted Source
- Posts: 3432
- Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
- Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
- Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
- Axis Tilt: 13
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Re: Mo Says
From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4747" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Increasing the reverse in the middle finger actually helped to lower your tilt. Changing pitches changes the resulting ball motion. If you have to change the grip to accomodate issues like this, CHANGE THE SPAN FIRST TO RELIEVE THE PRESSURE, NOT THE PITCH, UNLESS YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE ROLL!
Increasing the reverse in the middle finger actually helped to lower your tilt. Changing pitches changes the resulting ball motion. If you have to change the grip to accomodate issues like this, CHANGE THE SPAN FIRST TO RELIEVE THE PRESSURE, NOT THE PITCH, UNLESS YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE ROLL!
- BCP27
- Member
- Posts: 510
- Joined: July 10th, 2011, 1:44 am
- Speed: 13 on monitor
- Heavy Oil Ball: Hopefully a Raptor P7 or a DestroyR soon
- Medium Oil Ball: 2furious, I don't have any other balls right now
- Light Oil Ball: my ol' Tropical Storm.
- Preferred Company: Unknown
- Location: Metro Area, Minnesota
Re: Mo Says
Green Pads are for dishes!JohnP wrote:With Scotch Brite pads, it's all about the pressure you use with the pad. Burgundy results in 400 to 800 depending on the pressure. Grey results in 800 to 1500, again, depending on the pressure used.
Using scuff pads is not an exact science, but this is usually done during practice when the ball you want to use is not reacting enough. After the bowling is done, I always recommend using a spinner to return the ball to its' normal surface.
I wish I read that before using a green pad several times on my 2furious....oh well it worked pretty well for me. It got my pin down 2furious reading early enough for the smooth arc to bounce off the dry when my Tropical Storm over-skidded....which is usually the case on fresh oil.