Board index » Mo & Friends » Ball & Layout Advice




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 198 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:35 am Post Number: #161 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
Taken from: viewtopic.php?t=3571

The vertical coordinate has nothing to do with ball motion. It's an anomaly. The longer the thumb stays in the ball, the more the vertical coordinate is up. In full rollers, in which the thumb stays in the ball the longest, the vertical coordinate is usually 2+" up.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:29 pm Post Number: #162 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
taken from: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10266

Hook/Set reaction is ball motion with a medium skid phase, a short hook zone and a longer roll zone.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:12 pm Post Number: #163 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
MOtion hole with no thumb & new rules: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10306

Follow the instructions and start with the center of the grip as the center of the inserts. Measure from there through the pin. Measure 10" on that line. Make sure the center of the MOtion Hole is at least 1 1/4" for the 1st oil ring on the bottom of the ball. Start small. There can be NO thumb hole in the ball if you use a balance hole under the revised rules.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:26 pm Post Number: #164 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
taken from: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10315 (see #19)

Plugging and re-drilling a ball is specific to each event. The amount of change is related to which part of the ball (inner core, outer core, or shell) the holes hit. The changes are almost always minimal.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:24 pm Post Number: #165 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10425 (see #17)

The first transition (skid to hook) is related to flare (pin to PAP distance) and the drilling angle.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:37 am Post Number: #166 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 3196
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Reputation: 246
Reputation Power: 3
From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1352&p=11036&hilit=rico#p11036

Regarding a dual angle layout to match the reaction from the Rico layout:

[color=#FFFF00]Rico's are vague depending on PAPs, but my suggestion is 15 / 5 / 50 with a P4 hole for symmetricals. I wouldn't do it on an asym. because regular "Dual Angle" layouts are so precise and accurate for asyms.[/color]


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:36 pm Post Number: #167 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 3196
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Reputation: 246
Reputation Power: 3
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1118&hilit=CLT&start=20

This link takes you to a thread where Mo discusses the use of the fan chart in the fitting procedure and compares it to the Center Line Transfer (CLT) process. -- JohnP


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:18 pm Post Number: #168 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
Taken from: posting.php?mode=quote&f=15&p=84937 (see #20)

It compares a sym. vs. an asym., both drilled 3 3/4" by 30*. The change in core angle in the asym. is much greater than the change in core angle of the sym. This means that the core of the asym. lays down more and faster than the core of the sym. contributing to the sharper, quicker revving breakpoint of the asym. ball.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:11 pm Post Number: #169 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 3196
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Reputation: 246
Reputation Power: 3
From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10998

Regarding: Layout for a two handed, no-thumb bowler

In regards to this remark : Also the pro shop just wants to put the cg center and just below fingers and then just set the pin to pap without drilling a thumb. Is this an ok method or is it very imprecise?

That's a good method. I just recommend pin to PAP distances between 4 1/2" and 5 1/4". Closer to 4 1/2" to get the ball to corner and closer to 5 1/4" for smoother roll.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 6:17 pm Post Number: #170 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
about Motion hole with fingers only (no thumb layout) from post: posting.php?mode=quote&f=13&p=85581

I haven't investigated that yet. The MOtion Hole ball reaction results from the combined effect of the thumb hole and the MOtion Hole. So, I'm not sure.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:22 pm Post Number: #171 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: April 4, 2015
Posts: 191
Location: Iceland
Reputation: 11
Reputation Power: 1
elgavachon wrote:
about Motion hole with fingers only (no thumb layout) from post: posting.php?mode=quote&f=13&p=85581

I haven't investigated that yet. The MOtion Hole ball reaction results from the combined effect of the thumb hole and the MOtion Hole. So, I'm not sure.


elgavachon wrote:
MOtion hole with no thumb & new rules: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10306

Follow the instructions and start with the center of the grip as the center of the inserts. Measure from there through the pin. Measure 10" on that line. Make sure the center of the MOtion Hole is at least 1 1/4" for the 1st oil ring on the bottom of the ball. Start small. There can be NO thumb hole in the ball if you use a balance hole under the revised rules.



Only one of those can be true.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 11:00 pm Post Number: #172 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 3196
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Reputation: 246
Reputation Power: 3
From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11020

Time to understand the effect of both cores and covers on the ball gooing down the lane. It's a sliding scale. The closer to the foul line the ball is, the more the coverstock (including surface) dominates. The closer to the ball going off the pin deck, the more the core dominates. In the pin deck (going thru the pins), the cover is mostly insignificant. In the heads (the front of the lane), the core is mostly insignificant. As the ball travels down the lane the coverstock becomes less important and the core becomes more important. Hitting the pocket is mostly related to to the coverstock, but pin carry is mostly related to ball dynamics (core).

That ought to start something!


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:31 pm Post Number: #173 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=15&p=85622#p85622 (see #14)


There are only 2 ways to get the ball to flare the wrong way:

1) Please the pin (low RG axis),past the VAL.
2) Place the low RG axis of the drilled ball (post drilling low RG axis) more than 6 3/4" from the bowler's PAP. Because of the movement of the low RG axis after drilling, I use 5 3/4" pin to PAP as max.

Drilling high track bowlers with pin to PAP distance > 4 3/4" can pull the track up on the holes, but won't reverse the flare until you exceed 5 3/4".


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:11 pm Post Number: #174 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 3196
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Reputation: 246
Reputation Power: 3
From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11030

Response to a no-thumber regarding balance hole placement and PSA location for symmetrical balls, and moving the track away from the finger holes.

Try 1/2 F in MF and drill fingers 3 1/2" deep to help stabilize PSA. We did some No Thumb studies. The PSA on the Yeti should be 6 3/4" from the pin about 2" left of centerline.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:44 am Post Number: #175 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: April 4, 2015
Posts: 191
Location: Iceland
Reputation: 11
Reputation Power: 1
JohnP wrote:
From: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11030

Response to a no-thumber regarding balance hole placement and PSA location for symmetrical balls, and moving the track away from the finger holes.

Try 1/2 F in MF and drill fingers 3 1/2" deep to help stabilize PSA. We did some No Thumb studies. The PSA on the Yeti should be 6 3/4" from the pin about 2" left of centerline.


I think this should prequel the quote from the same topic.

"Try these lateral pitches to get the ball off the MF hole:
MF - 3/8 L
RF - 1/4 R

Also try 0 F/Rev in RF. Let us know the effect."


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:59 pm Post Number: #176 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 3196
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Reputation: 246
Reputation Power: 3
From: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11116&view=unread#unread

Regarding: Balance holes for no-thumb bowlers

Balance hole size and location is the most critcal factor to ball motion on a symmetrical ball because it moves the PSA of the drilled ball around so much. On no thumb drillings, the balance hole can cause wild swings in the PSA location because the drilling holes remove so little mass from the ball. I recommend drilling the finger holes at least 3" deep on no thumb balls to help stabilize PSA movements when adding a balance hole. I've been tracking the movement of the PSA on no thumb balls with a DeTerminator to learn more about the PSA movement. No solid determinations, yet. My 13 year old son, Levi, is a no thumb bowler because I wouldn't let him use his thumb when he started. So I get plenty of practice on these layouts.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:54 pm Post Number: #177 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
Taken from: viewtopic.php?t=845 (see #9)

"Interchangeable thumbs are an important part of ball drilling today. We included demos on both the Vise IT and the Turbo Switch Grip in our advanced class this year. Both systems work well when installed properly and DO NOT negatively affect ball dynamics. USBC Equip. and Specs. did a study to prove that they don't negatively affect ball dynamics."


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:45 pm Post Number: #178 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3020
Reputation: 432
Reputation Power: 5
Taken from: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11215

Let's do some confirming of the measurements. Put a piece of tape on your measured PAP and see if the ball rotates about that PAP as it hits the lane. You'll have to have someone watch it as the tape will move as the ball flares. Another way to confirm the PAP is to find the center of the ball track and measure 13 1/2" from that in any direction to find the PAP. I use that method when an Armadillo is not available.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:59 am Post Number: #179 Post
Online
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: April 4, 2011
Posts: 2820
Location: Michigan
Reputation: 233
Reputation Power: 3
Taken from viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11240&p=87311#p87311

Mo Pinel wrote:

Please follow the suggestion! This ball has the rotational inertia to handle that layout. I know the designer. As far as Storm recommends, which they are entitled to, this is NOT a Storm ball.

The pin position, not the PSA, will keep the flares off the thumb.

_________________
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
65* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16mph off hand


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Mo Says
 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:15 am Post Number: #180 Post
Online
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: April 4, 2011
Posts: 2820
Location: Michigan
Reputation: 233
Reputation Power: 3
Taken from viewtopic.php?f=13&p=87312#p87312

So what happens when a ball burns up?

Mo Pinel wrote:

A ball "burns up" when it enters the roll phase too soon. When the axis rotation and the axis tilt are equal (the 2nd transition), the ball will no longer hook. If the ball still has a little axis rotation and tilt (which are then equal), it will still hit. The ball will only stop hitting when both the axis rotation and tilt equal zero (true "roll out").

_________________
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
65* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16mph off hand


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 198 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Board index » Mo & Friends » Ball & Layout Advice


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: