Downlane Motion

Which layout is right for me?

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pc4bowling
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Positive Axis Point: 5 and 1/2 right, 1 and 1/2 up
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Downlane Motion

Post by pc4bowling »

My PAP is 5 1/2 right and 1 1/2 up
Speed down lane is 18mph downlane
tilt approx 15 degrees (axis tilt overlay)
rotation 50 to 60* (axis overlay)
Rev rate. 440

Hey guys.
looking for something downlane motion, for when the lanes open up. something that is gonna make the corner.
thinking possibly a Victory Road solid or a Hy Road
pc4bowling
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by pc4bowling »

let me clearify.. I am looking for a layout for some down lane motion
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by JMerrell »

While you are waiting, read this WIKI article.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... atio_Guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Study the Total Sums and Ratio Discussion in particular.

Read through several times and take an educated guess at what you feel you would need for a long and strong reaction.

You will be given an answer to your question, but this site is about education as well.
Learning for free, what a concept.
-JMerrell
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"
elgavachon
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by elgavachon »

If we follow the article Jim showed you:
One way to calculate would be to add 25* to your totals. (to assure the length you are after)
If we added 25* to 90* we would get 115*
115* divided by 2:1 (skid-snap ratio) would give you 75*/40* asymmetrical.
To convert to symmetrical= 80*/35*
Use a longer pin to pap symmetrical (low flare) for more skid-snap motion.
I would guess 80* 4 1/4 35* symmetrical would give you a starting point (probably the look you are after).
Tweaking from that for a more exaggerated motion. Lowering the val angle will give a sharper motion.

I would layout the ball with that and check the drill angle with the thumb-hole (symmetrical)
and then adjust the val angle to keep the ratio you are after.
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Mo Pinel
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by Mo Pinel »

elgavachon wrote:If we follow the article Jim showed you:
One way to calculate would be to add 25* to your totals. (to assure the length you are after)
If we added 25* to 90* we would get 115*
115* divided by 2:1 (skid-snap ratio) would give you 75*/40* asymmetrical.
To convert to symmetrical= 80*/35*
Use a longer pin to pap symmetrical (low flare) for more skid-snap motion.
I would guess 80* 4 1/4 35* symmetrical would give you a starting point (probably the look you are after).
Tweaking from that for a more exaggerated motion. Lowering the val angle will give a sharper motion.

I would layout the ball with that and check the drill angle with the thumb-hole (symmetrical)
and then adjust the val angle to keep the ratio you are after.

Well done, elgavachon! No need for me to butt in.
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ICURNVS
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by ICURNVS »

Just as a check on if im getting it ...

by opening up meaning back ends drying up...

he wanted length so the higher totals

skid flip would still be the 2:1 ratio mabye even a bit higher

why the low flare? im taking it the less flare the more of a skid flip reaction on a symetrical. what about asymetrical?

Thanks guys... gaining so much knowledge here!!
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
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PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by Mo Pinel »

ICURNVS wrote:Just as a check on if im getting it ...

by opening up meaning back ends drying up...

he wanted length so the higher totals

skid flip would still be the 2:1 ratio mabye even a bit higher

why the low flare? im taking it the less flare the more of a skid flip reaction on a symetrical. what about asymetrical?

Thanks guys... gaining so much knowledge here!!
You decrease the flare to delay the transitions on ALL balls.
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by Strimmed »

Mo Pinel wrote: You decrease the flare to delay the transitions on ALL balls.
Sorry for resurrecting this thread from the dead, but my driller and i are trying hard to really grasp the whole flare study on asymetrics particularly. So as mo stated decreasing flare delays the transitions on all balls... This i understand, and i also understand that max flare on asyms is acheived by pin distances between 2 3/4 - 6 1/4" and i understand the difference in ball motion between a max flare pin of 2 3/4" - 4" and 4" - 6 1/4" but how come i never see anyone recommend any pin to pap distances in asymetrical balls that DONT utilize a lower flaring pin?

And if someone was looking for a smaller flaring layout on an asym, would they use pins between .5" - 2 3/4" for an angular reaction, and distances of 6 1/4" - 6 3/4" for a more end over end roll off the spot?

I hope this makes sense... As it does in my head, but is always much harder to word it to read accordingly, lol.

Any help would be GREAT

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13-14mph via Quibica Monitors
230-260 Revrate
17* Axis Tilt
35-40* Axis Rotation
4 1/4" right 1/4" up PAP
Bowling on Medium volume and length THS over old grandfathered in Brunswick Anvilane 2 Synthetics
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by MegaMav »

Because when someone is looking for a ball and layout, and they have low tilt and rotation or they have a high rev rate combined with those factors we usually suggest a more even hooking symmetrical.

Your understanding is correct, but asymmetricals are usually targeted as fast spin time, angular ball reactions.
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by Strimmed »

MegaMav wrote:Because when someone is looking for a ball and layout, and they have low tilt and rotation or they have a high rev rate combined with those factors we usually suggest a more even hooking symmetrical.

Your understanding is correct, but asymmetricals are usually targeted as fast spin time, angular ball reactions.
Thanks Mav. I can definately understand that. But just in terms of trying to fully grasp the concept and educate myself. If that same bowler, (high revrate, combined with low tilt and low rotation) was adament on getting an asymetrical ball, just for a typical house shot though, nothing fancy. Would you put him in a layout with a short pin to pap that still provided max flare (i.e. 2 3/4") or one that had just a little less flare but would still retain his low tilt and rotation like 2"?

This is all just a hypothetical scenarion for education purposes only

Again Thanks for the reply.

My Specs


13-14mph via Quibica Monitors
230-260 Revrate
17* Axis Tilt
35-40* Axis Rotation
4 1/4" right 1/4" up PAP
Bowling on Medium volume and length THS over old grandfathered in Brunswick Anvilane 2 Synthetics
elgavachon
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by elgavachon »

Strimmed wrote: Thanks Mav. I can definately understand that. But just in terms of trying to fully grasp the concept and educate myself. If that same bowler, (high revrate, combined with low tilt and low rotation) was adament on getting an asymetrical ball, just for a typical house shot though, nothing fancy. Would you put him in a layout with a short pin to pap that still provided max flare (i.e. 2 3/4") or one that had just a little less flare but would still retain his low tilt and rotation like 2"?

This is all just a hypothetical scenarion for education purposes only

Again Thanks for the reply.
This is not hypothetical. It is a control layout. When a bowler has low tilt (& especially with revs), Mo usually uses low flare pins.
Mo gave a bowler with:
5*
45* rotation
14.5 mph
240 rev (rev dom)
80* 2 1/4 35*

A high rev, low tilt bowler wanted a layout for a 930T (very asymmetrical for wood)
Mo gave him 90* 2 45* (see #4) viewtopic.php?t=868" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another bowler high rev (Mo said he considered him rev dominant (see #13):
75* 2 1/4 55* For extreme wet/dry short oil. viewtopic.php?t=1206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by NPMystikal24 »

JMerrell wrote:While you are waiting, read this WIKI article.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... atio_Guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Study the Total Sums and Ratio Discussion in particular.

Read through several times and take an educated guess at what you feel you would need for a long and strong reaction.

You will be given an answer to your question, but this site is about education as well.
Learning for free, what a concept.

I was just looking on this page and came across this on the wiki...

Smaller Drilling Angle Example
1.90º total sums with a ratio of 2:1
2.90º divided by 3 = 30º val angle
3.90º - 30º with a 2:1 ratio = 60º drilling angle
4.Results in a 60º drilling angle and 30º val angle.
Smaller Val Angle Example
1.90º total sums with a ratio of 1:2
2.90º divided by 3 = 30º drilling angle
3.90º - 30º with a 1:2 ratio = 60º val angle'
4.Results in a 30º drilling angle and 60º val angle.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the smaller drilling angle example go with the second set of numbers and vise versa? Thanks.

Neal
elgavachon
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Re: Downlane Motion

Post by elgavachon »

NPMystikal24 wrote:
I was just looking on this page and came across this on the wiki...

Smaller Drilling Angle Example
1.90º total sums with a ratio of 2:1
2.90º divided by 3 = 30º val angle
3.90º - 30º with a 2:1 ratio = 60º drilling angle
4.Results in a 60º drilling angle and 30º val angle.
Smaller Val Angle Example
1.90º total sums with a ratio of 1:2
2.90º divided by 3 = 30º drilling angle
3.90º - 30º with a 1:2 ratio = 60º val angle'
4.Results in a 30º drilling angle and 60º val angle.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the smaller drilling angle example go with the second set of numbers and vise versa? Thanks.

Neal
Thanks for catching. The original can be edited by any user here & someone had edited it looking for more clarity. I fixed it.
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