What type of layouts are these visually in terms of pin and mb placement on a standard ball? Pin up/Pin Down, how far away from the PAP? I"m going to use Mo's suggestion, but I was just curious what it looks like using my general knowledge of layouts. Still trying to rap my head around the Dual Angle Technique.MattCosta7 wrote:3* tilt would mean that you have very little axis tilt. It means that you will need to use layouts that assist in retaining tilt, in order to maximize carry.
It will mean that every revolution of the ball covers more surface, typically leading to an earlier read on the lane, and a smoother hook motion once it encounters friction.
It will also assist in making you more Rev Dominant than speed dominant. This is in addition to the RPM/Speed differences.
How should I drill these?
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Re: How should I drill these?
- Mo Pinel
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Re: How should I drill these?
I only respond in "Dual Angle" terminology because of its' accuracy! Thanks.Motogp69 wrote: What type of layouts are these visually in terms of pin and mb placement on a standard ball? Pin up/Pin Down, how far away from the PAP? I"m going to use Mo's suggestion, but I was just curious what it looks like using my general knowledge of layouts. Still trying to rap my head around the Dual Angle Technique.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
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Re: How should I drill these?
smaller drilling angles place mb closer to val or past it depending on how small. large drilling angles are closer to thumb or past it depending on how large. small val angle place pin closer to pap while large val angles place pin at fingers or below depending on how large the val angle.
- Mo Pinel
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Re: How should I drill these?
That should be "small VAL angles place pin closer to the VAL".elgavachon wrote:smaller drilling angles place mb closer to val or past it depending on how small. large drilling angles are closer to thumb or past it depending on how large. small val angle place pin closer to pap while large val angles place pin at fingers or below depending on how large the val angle.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: How should I drill these?
Just wanted to thank Mo for the suggested drilling on the Hy-Road. I haven't had a ball read the lane that well and not over react in a very long time. I can't wait to get my Reign of Fire with the double thumb. I can see why your time and advice is so sought after.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Re: How should I drill these?
Mo, after the difference in ball reaction I saw with the Hy-Road I'm thinking of re-drilling my Freeze. Any suggestions on a layout for that ball?
How do yo ufeel about the love urethane has been getting lately and if so how should I drill up a Natural?
I'm really looking to fill out a 6 ball arsenal, so wit the Hy-Road, Reign of Fire, and Freeze what should I throw in there and how should I drill them up?
How do yo ufeel about the love urethane has been getting lately and if so how should I drill up a Natural?
I'm really looking to fill out a 6 ball arsenal, so wit the Hy-Road, Reign of Fire, and Freeze what should I throw in there and how should I drill them up?
- Mo Pinel
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Re: How should I drill these?
Motogp69 wrote:Mo, after the difference in ball reaction I saw with the Hy-Road I'm thinking of re-drilling my Freeze. Any suggestions on a layout for that ball?
How do yo ufeel about the love urethane has been getting lately and if so how should I drill up a Natural?
I'm really looking to fill out a 6 ball arsenal, so wit the Hy-Road, Reign of Fire, and Freeze what should I throw in there and how should I drill them up?
Glad the HyRoad rolled the way you wanted. I can help you with your 6 ball arsenal. I need some data. Please re-post your delivery specs. And the layouts you are using in your current arsenal. I noticed that the three balls you mention are ALL symmetrical before drilling. Expanding the spectrum should involve at least one asymmetrical and maybe a Natural. You want the widest possible usable spectrum to be most effective. Post what i need and I'd be glads to help.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: How should I drill these?
Here are my statsMo Pinel wrote:
Glad the HyRoad rolled the way you wanted. I can help you with your 6 ball arsenal. I need some data. Please re-post your delivery specs. And the layouts you are using in your current arsenal. I noticed that the three balls you mention are ALL symmetrical before drilling. Expanding the spectrum should involve at least one asymmetrical and maybe a Natural. You want the widest possible usable spectrum to be most effective. Post what i need and I'd be glads to help.
Ball Speed: 18.5 mph (in the heads)
Rev Rate: 450 rpm
PAP: 4 7/8 over 1/2 up
Axis Rotation: 45 deg
Axis Tilt: 3 deg
Currently I have:
Hy-Road which is drilled: 70 by 4 1/2 by 40 with a P2 hole (2000)
Reign of Fire: Double Thumb (1000)
Freeze: Don't know the Dual Angle layout, just know that it's pin above ring finger w/MB to the right of the thumb
Roto Mercury: Also Pin above ring w/MB right of the thumb (spare ball/fried lanes ball)
Thanks
- Mo Pinel
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Re: How should I drill these?
Good info! I'll suggest a layout for a urethane ball first. Urethane is used to play more direct without a wet/dry reaction. It's: 60 / 4 / 35 with a P2 hole.Motogp69 wrote: Here are my stats
Ball Speed: 18.5 mph (in the heads)
Rev Rate: 450 rpm
PAP: 4 7/8 over 1/2 up
Axis Rotation: 45 deg
Axis Tilt: 3 deg
Currently I have:
Hy-Road which is drilled: 70 by 4 1/2 by 40 with a P2 hole (2000)
Reign of Fire: Double Thumb (1000)
Freeze: Don't know the Dual Angle layout, just know that it's pin above ring finger w/MB to the right of the thumb
Roto Mercury: Also Pin above ring w/MB right of the thumb (spare ball/fried lanes ball)
Thanks
For asymmetrical, I'll suggest two MoRich balls (my privilege on this forum). The most valuble one to you would be: a Craze drilled 75 / 3 / 40 with a P2 hole. This should give you a reaction you will like with the carry of an asymmetrical ball. For heavy, heavy oil drill a mania: 60 / 3 1/4 / 30 with a P3 hole. The mania can be very useful opening up the lane on many conditions by adjusting the surface.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: How should I drill these?
Mo Pinel wrote: Good info! I'll suggest a layout for a urethane ball first. Urethane is used to play more direct without a wet/dry reaction. It's: 60 / 4 / 35 with a P2 hole.
For asymmetrical, I'll suggest two MoRich balls (my privilege on this forum). The most valuble one to you would be: a Craze drilled 75 / 3 / 40 with a P2 hole. This should give you a reaction you will like with the carry of an asymmetrical ball. For heavy, heavy oil drill a mania: 60 / 3 1/4 / 30 with a P3 hole. The mania can be very useful opening up the lane on many conditions by adjusting the surface.
Would you re-drill the Freeze? and if so what would you suggest on the layout?
Re: How should I drill these?
For those that are familiar with the Morich balls that Mo suggested, I am able to get: Brunswick, Rotogrip, and Storm balls at a significant discount through a friend. Are there any in these lines that would be similiar or could accomplish what Mo was wanting them to do in my lineup?
It has nothing to do with Morich balls, because currently have 3 of them in my reserves and I know the type of quality Mo produces, it's just times are tight and I need to save money where I can.
It has nothing to do with Morich balls, because currently have 3 of them in my reserves and I know the type of quality Mo produces, it's just times are tight and I need to save money where I can.
- cgeorg
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Re: How should I drill these?
Invasion or C-System 3.5 would be subs for the Mania. A benchmark asymmetric ball could probably fit in the Craze slot. Most of Storm's stuff at that point is symmetric, though a Virtual Energy might work out. C-System 2.5 from Bruns would probably fit. I don't think Roto has an asymmetric at that level - Cell Pearl is about all I can think of, and both that and the VE are probably going to have a little less up front than the Craze.
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Re: How should I drill these?
Don't forget the Mutant Cell.cgeorg wrote:Invasion or C-System 3.5 would be subs for the Mania. A benchmark asymmetric ball could probably fit in the Craze slot. Most of Storm's stuff at that point is symmetric, though a Virtual Energy might work out. C-System 2.5 from Bruns would probably fit. I don't think Roto has an asymmetric at that level - Cell Pearl is about all I can think of, and both that and the VE are probably going to have a little less up front than the Craze.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
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Re: How should I drill these?
Rogue Cell - > craze (instead of cell pearl)cgeorg wrote: A benchmark asymmetric ball could probably fit in the Craze slot.
I don't think Roto has an asymmetric at that level - Cell Pearl is about all I can think of, and both that and the VE are probably going to have a little less up front than the Craze.
Alittle stronger covered than the cell pearl, so it'll read the lane earlier and more continuously.
Re: How should I drill these?
Okay that works, I'm getting a Rogue Cell for free and if that will work that saves me the price of one ball.MattCosta7 wrote: Rogue Cell - > craze (instead of cell pearl)
Alittle stronger covered than the cell pearl, so it'll read the lane earlier and more continuously.
I've been wanting to give the Big B a try again and they seem to have a winner with the 3.5. So which should I go with Invasion or 3.5?
- Mo Pinel
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Re: How should I drill these?
Both good balls. My personal choice is the 3.5 if a MoRich mania is not an option.Motogp69 wrote: Okay that works, I'm getting a Rogue Cell for free and if that will work that saves me the price of one ball.
I've been wanting to give the Big B a try again and they seem to have a winner with the 3.5. So which should I go with Invasion or 3.5?
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: How should I drill these?
Mo, just wanted to say thanks once again. I got my double thumb drilled Reign of Fire today, and I can see why the double thumb is such a popular drilling. I can't wait to try it on a sport pattern on Monday. We're going to put it through the torture test on a 42 foot flat pattern.Both good balls. My personal choice is the 3.5 if a MoRich mania is not an option.