Help from Mo on a new Ball

Which layout is right for me?

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Mo Pinel
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Re: Help from Mo on a new Ball

Post by Mo Pinel »

headwest wrote:Was this a mistake??


My estimate of your sweet spot at 100*. Your range for the sum of your angles is from 80* to 120*.



Strong midlane: 45 / 4 / 25 with a P4 hole =70*

Good catch! That should be 50 / 4 / 30 = 80*
My bad!
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Mo Pinel
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Re: Help from Mo on a new Ball

Post by Mo Pinel »

chucks0 wrote:One last question on layouts before I start revamping my arsenal. After recording my release and ball roll on several different days with a good camera, my best estimate of my specs is as follows:

Speed: 17-18 (Based on time from release to contact with head pin - 2.35 Seconds)
Rev Rate: ~400 (Based on 2.25 revolutions in 10 frames @ 30 fps)
Axis Tilt: ~15 degrees (11 - 11.5 inches across initial track)
Axis Rotation: Appears to be around 65-70 (using overlay image)

My previous recommendations were as follows:

Sweet Spot is 100*
Range for the sum of angles is from 80* to 120*
Benchmark Layout: 60 / 4 / 40 with a P3 hole
Long and strong: 90 / 3 / 30 with a P3 hole
Completely strong: "Double Thumb"
Strong midlane: 50 / 4 / 30 with a P4 hole
Control: 70 / 4 1/2 / 50 with a P1 or P2 hole, if necessary.
Mania for Nationals: 55 / 3 1/4 / 35 with a P3 hole

Do these layouts still seem correct, or do I need to adjust them somewhat. Based on what I have read, the increase in Axis Rotation may require reducing the drill angle by 5* although the increased rev rate would indicate an increase of 5* of both drill and val angles. If I'm correct (which I'm probably not), the net result would be to increase the val angle only by 5* on all the recommended layouts.

Okay Mo, tell me I'm wrong and correct me. :)

I'd use the layouts with one change. It's in yellow and bolded. Thanks to headwest's observation.
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chucks0
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Positive Axis Point: 4 1/4 Over - 1/8 down
Speed: 17-18 at Release
Rev Rate: 425
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 65
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Yeti Untamed or Rotogrip Disturbed
Medium Oil Ball: Radical Yeti
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick Avalanche Solid
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: Help from Mo on a new Ball

Post by chucks0 »

One last question (I promise). I assume the suggested layouts are for asymmetrical balls. How would the Pin to Pap distances be changed for symmetrical balls, if at all?

Charles
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Re: Help from Mo on a new Ball

Post by Mo Pinel »

chucks0 wrote:One last question (I promise). I assume the suggested layouts are for asymmetrical balls. How would the Pin to Pap distances be changed for symmetrical balls, if at all?

Charles
In your case the pin to PAP distances should be the same for both types of balls since they're all between 3" and 4". The only one outside that range is the 4 1/2" control layout. On the symmetrical ball, there will be a little less flare, but a surface adjustment can cover that.
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chucks0
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Posts: 143
Joined: March 8th, 2010, 3:33 pm
THS Average: 220
Positive Axis Point: 4 1/4 Over - 1/8 down
Speed: 17-18 at Release
Rev Rate: 425
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 65
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Yeti Untamed or Rotogrip Disturbed
Medium Oil Ball: Radical Yeti
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick Avalanche Solid
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: Help from Mo on a new Ball

Post by chucks0 »

Thanks again for your time and effort. I am very much looking forward to having the layout of the ball work for me and not against me.

I guess next up on the list is a good performance fitting. Other than shortening my span a month ago, I have made no changes to pitches in close to 15 years. I currently have 3/8 reverse 1/8 left in the thumb and 7/16 out 1/8 forward (or is it reverse, it is away from the center of grip) in both fingers. Although I never have any pain or blisters unless I bowl a LOT, I'm sure some tweaking wouldn't hurt. My cut line spans are 4 9/16 and 4 3/4 which I think puts my actual spans at around 4 3/4 and 4 15/16. My thumb is a little over 2 1/2 long.

Mo Pinel wrote: In your case the pin to PAP distances should be the same for both types of balls since they're all between 3" and 4". The only one outside that range is the 4 1/2" control layout. On the symmetrical ball, there will be a little less flare, but a surface adjustment can cover that.

Mo says: Using the Thumb Angle Pitch Chart, what is the hinge angle of your thumb?
chucks0
Member
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Posts: 143
Joined: March 8th, 2010, 3:33 pm
THS Average: 220
Positive Axis Point: 4 1/4 Over - 1/8 down
Speed: 17-18 at Release
Rev Rate: 425
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 65
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Yeti Untamed or Rotogrip Disturbed
Medium Oil Ball: Radical Yeti
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick Avalanche Solid
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: Help from Mo on a new Ball

Post by chucks0 »

I would estimate it at around 135 according to the chart.
chucks0 wrote:Thanks again for your time and effort. I am very much looking forward to having the layout of the ball work for me and not against me.

I guess next up on the list is a good performance fitting. Other than shortening my span a month ago, I have made no changes to pitches in close to 15 years. I currently have 3/8 reverse 1/8 left in the thumb and 7/16 out 1/8 forward (or is it reverse, it is away from the center of grip) in both fingers. Although I never have any pain or blisters unless I bowl a LOT, I'm sure some tweaking wouldn't hurt. My cut line spans are 4 9/16 and 4 3/4 which I think puts my actual spans at around 4 3/4 and 4 15/16. My thumb is a little over 2 1/2 long.



Mo says: Using the Thumb Angle Pitch Chart, what is the hinge angle of your thumb?
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Mo Pinel
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Re: Help from Mo on a new Ball

Post by Mo Pinel »

chucks0 wrote:I would estimate it at around 135 according to the chart.
By the way, reverse pitch is away from the center of the grip. My calculation from your date and the Thumb Angle Pitch Chart is 3/8" reverse. Looks like you're good.
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