Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Which layout is right for me?

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SirCochese
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Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by SirCochese »

Hello all,

With the VE being discontinued, I picked one up for safe keeping. :) Now contemplating how to punch it up.

First, the ball specs: 14.4lbs, 3.14 oz top, 3-3.5" pin

Now my specs (I've been learning to throw from more behind the ball, so my specs are different from the last time I posted):

Right Handed
17.5 MPH (measured via electric eyes downlane)
~250rpm (measured by eye as faster than my previous ~8 revolutions in 2.5s)
Initial axis rotation: ~55 degrees
Initial axis tilt: ~20 degrees
PAP: 4 1/2" Over, 1" Up
Span: 4 5/16" both fingers
Wood surface
THS (medium-heavy in the pattern, medium-dry outside)
My THS average is ~170

I like a predictable motion with a strong backend. As I mentioned, I'm an engineer, so I like to try and understand this stuff. Using the Wiki, I come up with the following.

Ratio (Speed Dominant) = 1:1 - 1:1.5
Angle Sum (Good bowler, Speed Dominant) = 80 ± 20
Slightly high tilt (take lower end of angle sum), but strong cover (take higher end) - lean just a little high = 85
THS = use higher ratio as dry outside, slide to 1.5:1
Asymm (so longer pin), but want to maintain energy (less than 4") = 3.5" Pin-PAP

This leads me to 55/3.5/30.

What say you, Mo & Friends? How'd I do?

Thanks,
BoB
elgavachon
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by elgavachon »

With 20* of tilt and being so speed dominant, I wouldn't try to maintain any energy. i would use a longer pin.
I noticed you raised the ratio for a house shot. Mo usually lowers the ratio for a house shot.
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Mo Pinel
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by Mo Pinel »

SirCochese wrote:Hello all,

With the VE being discontinued, I picked one up for safe keeping. :) Now contemplating how to punch it up.

First, the ball specs: 14.4lbs, 3.14 oz top, 3-3.5" pin

Now my specs (I've been learning to throw from more behind the ball, so my specs are different from the last time I posted):

Right Handed
17.5 MPH (measured via electric eyes downlane)
~250rpm (measured by eye as faster than my previous ~8 revolutions in 2.5s)
Initial axis rotation: ~55 degrees
Initial axis tilt: ~20 degrees
PAP: 4 1/2" Over, 1" Up
Span: 4 5/16" both fingers
Wood surface
THS (medium-heavy in the pattern, medium-dry outside)
My THS average is ~170

I like a predictable motion with a strong backend. As I mentioned, I'm an engineer, so I like to try and understand this stuff. Using the Wiki, I come up with the following.

Ratio (Speed Dominant) = 1:1 - 1:1.5
Angle Sum (Good bowler, Speed Dominant) = 80 ± 20
Slightly high tilt (take lower end of angle sum), but strong cover (take higher end) - lean just a little high = 85
THS = use higher ratio as dry outside, slide to 1.5:1
Asymm (so longer pin), but want to maintain energy (less than 4") = 3.5" Pin-PAP

This leads me to 55/3.5/30.

What say you, Mo & Friends? How'd I do?

Thanks,
BoB
The Virtual Energy has a lower level "super" cover, so it's not that aggressive. I'd drill it 35 / 4 1/4 / 40 with a P# hole given your specs. Start with 500/2000 surface. Pay attention to elgavachon's post.
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SirCochese
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by SirCochese »

elgavachon wrote:With 20* of tilt and being so speed dominant, I wouldn't try to maintain any energy. i would use a longer pin.
I noticed you raised the ratio for a house shot. Mo usually lowers the ratio for a house shot.
I'm working with my coach on bringing my tilt down a bit. If I got it down to about 15, would that change your advice any?
Wiki-DualAngleSweetSpot wrote: Adjust the angles for the pattern the bowler wants to use the ball on.

Dry or short patterns use higher ratio
Wet or long patterns use lower ratio
Generally, I didn't think THS was particularly wet or long. I wonder why Mo would lower the ratio for a house shot? Mo?

Thanks a ton,
BoB
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by SirCochese »

Mo Pinel wrote: The Virtual Energy has a lower level "super" cover, so it's not that aggressive. I'd drill it 35 / 4 1/4 / 40 with a P# hole given your specs. Start with 500/2000 surface. Pay attention to elgavachon's post.
Mo, thanks so much for your advice. I'll definitely go with it, but I have some clarifying questions for my own education. Please understand I'm not challenging any advice, just trying to get my brain around how to do things for myself in the future.
WikiDualAngle wrote: A 10° drilling technique will roll the soonest of all the effective drilling angles.
A 90° drilling technique will roll the latest of all the effective drilling angles.
Given that I want a defined backend motion, how does such a low drilling angle (and added surface) help me with that? I would assume these would give me a very arc'y motion.
WikiDualAngle wrote: Using the minimum 20° angle will result in the drilled ball revving up the quickest and transitioning the fastest at the breakpoint.
Using the maximum 70° angle will result in the drilled ball revving up the slowest and transitioning the slowest at the breakpoint.
Also, given my low revs, what caused you to pick 40 over a lower number?

Again, thanks so much for all the information you provide to both me and the whole bowlingchat community!

BoB
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by Mo Pinel »

SirCochese wrote: Mo, thanks so much for your advice. I'll definitely go with it, but I have some clarifying questions for my own education. Please understand I'm not challenging any advice, just trying to get my brain around how to do things for myself in the future.
Given that I want a defined backend motion, how does such a low drilling angle (and added surface) help me with that? IT DOESN"T! THE VAL ANGLE DOES! I would assume these would give me a very arc'y motion.
Also, given my low revs, what caused you to pick 40 over a lower number? MY ASSESSMENT OF ALL THE INFO. PAYING ATTENTION TO RATIO!

Again, thanks so much for all the information you provide to both me and the whole bowlingchat community!

BoB
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elgavachon
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by elgavachon »

Wiki-DualAngleSweetSpot wrote:
Adjust the angles for the pattern the bowler wants to use the ball on.

Dry or short patterns use higher ratio
Wet or long patterns use lower ratio

Elgavachon wrote:
This is a little difficult to interpret correctly. I think it should read something like:

Dry or short patterns use higher total sums
Wet or long patterns use lower total sums
Adjust the ratios (higher or lower) to achieve the desired ball reaction shape.
Last edited by elgavachon on April 9th, 2011, 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
SirCochese
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by SirCochese »

elgavachon wrote:Wiki-DualAngleSweetSpot wrote:
Adjust the angles for the pattern the bowler wants to use the ball on.

Dry or short patterns use higher ratio
Wet or long patterns use lower ratio

Elgavachon:
This is a little difficult to interpret correctly. I think it should read something like:

Dry or short patterns use higher total sums
Wet or long patterns use lower total sums
Adjust the ratios (higher or lower) to achieve the desired ball reaction shape.
Agreed, but I never saw a description of what the ratios actually do. I assume using the ideal ratio gives you the consistent arc "benchmark" type shape? What happens when you raise the ratio? lower it?

Thanks!
elgavachon
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by elgavachon »

SirCochese wrote: Agreed, but I never saw a description of what the ratios actually do. I assume using the ideal ratio gives you the consistent arc "benchmark" type shape? What happens when you raise the ratio? lower it?

Thanks!
You want to raise or lower sums within the benchmark range which fits your specs. There is also a high and a low ratio range for your specs. If you use the highest sums (within your benchmark in combination with the highest ratio (also within your range) you will get a long and hard reaction but you need dryer boards or it will skid past the break. This is a brief way to do it:
long and hard (dry) =highest sums with largest ratio
control (dry)= highest sums with lowest ratio (could always use P1 hole for more)
midlane control (oil)= lowest sums with lowest ratio
early and strong (oil)=lowest sums with highest ratio ( could always use P3-P4 hole for more)
These would give you a starting place for calculations which you could further tweak for the shape you were after.
Last edited by elgavachon on April 9th, 2011, 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by elgavachon »

elgavachon wrote: You want to raise or lower sums within the benchmark range which fits your specs. There is also a high and a low ratio range for your specs. If you use the highest sums (within your benchmark in combination with the highest ratio (also within your range) you will get a long and hard reaction but you need dryer boards or it will skid past the break. This is a brief way to do it:
long and hard (dry) =highest sums with largest ratio
control (dry)= highest sums with lowest ratio (could always use P1 hole for more)
midlane control (oil)= lowest sums with lowest ratio
early and strong (oil)=lowest sums with highest ratio ( could always use P3-P4 hole for more)
Mo will say "It's just math"
SirCochese
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by SirCochese »

I would agree that it's just math. Unfortunately, I learned that there's more than one way to solve a differential equation. :)
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by SirCochese »

Mo Pinel wrote:The Virtual Energy has a lower level "super" cover, so it's not that aggressive. I'd drill it 35 / 4 1/4 / 40 with a P# hole given your specs. Start with 500/2000 surface. Pay attention to elgavachon's post.
So I got the ball and drew this layout on it. It ends up that the CG is about 1.5" left of the line connecting the pin and the MB. This layout puts the GC nearly in the center of grip. Should I be concerned about that?

Thanks,
BoB
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by Laniarty »

I love it when the cg is in the centre of the grip, makes doing balance holes very easy!
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by SirCochese »

Cool. One other question. With this layout, I'll be drilling the ring finger very close to the pin (within 1/4"). Should I worry about cracking or any other badness? If so, would pushing the pin to pap to 4.5" (from 4.25") significantly change the drilling? That would give me a little safety margin.
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Re: Layout advice for Virtual Energy

Post by Mo Pinel »

SirCochese wrote:Cool. One other question. With this layout, I'll be drilling the ring finger very close to the pin (within 1/4"). Should I worry about cracking or any other badness? If so, would pushing the pin to pap to 4.5" (from 4.25") significantly change the drilling? That would give me a little safety margin.
Moving the pin slightly to achieve a safewty margin is fine.
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