Mania for nationals layout help

Which layout is right for me?

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barnes1
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Mania for nationals layout help

Post by barnes1 »

looking at buying a mania just for nationals and was wondering what was a good layout to give me the earliest transition my ball speed is high and i know there are goin to be oily and all of my stuff is drilled to go medium to long down the lane and i want this one to start its transition as early as possible and suggestions
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by MattCosta7 »

as early as possible puts you in a 20x3 3/8 x 10 drilling. Very early rolling, but very smooth as well. Not much motion, but will roll through sludge

However, that will only be functional for you if you're extremely speed dominant.

What are you specs for RPM, Rotation, Tilt, PAP, and Speed?

These will lead to much better suggestions.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by cgeorg »

Wouldn't a longer pin roll sooner in an asymmetric ball?
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barnes1
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by barnes1 »

i throw the ball average 19.8 quebica lots of revs not sure the total amount atleast 400 my PAP is 4 1/2 and an 1/2 up
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by elgavachon »

you didn't mention your axis.you probably should so get the best pin to pap distance.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by kellytehuna »

MattCosta7 wrote:as early as possible puts you in a 20x3 3/8 x 10 drilling. Very early rolling, but very smooth as well. Not much motion, but will roll through sludge

However, that will only be functional for you if you're extremely speed dominant.

What are you specs for RPM, Rotation, Tilt, PAP, and Speed?

These will lead to much better suggestions.
Wouldn't you want a bigger VAL angle as well, to smooth out the break point? Just asking. I don't ACTUALLY know, I'm just interested. I would think 20 x 3 3/8 x 10 would start hooking at his feet and roll out before getting out of oil.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by Adrenaline »

cgeorg wrote:Wouldn't a longer pin roll sooner in an asymmetric ball?
According to Mo, The first transition is UNeffected by Pin to Pap on Asymmetrical balls. Pin to Pap simply defines the 'shape' of the 'hook'.

Cover/core and drilling angle will define the the time/distance when the first transition occurs.

Maybe you're mistaking "forward roll" with "sooner roll"? As longer pin to pap promotes forward roll.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by MattCosta7 »

Based on his specs, he'ld definitely want a longer VAL angle, and probably a higher drill angle too. I would say he has decently matched speed and revs, but without tilt, and rotation it's hard to be exacting. with lower tilt/rotation, he would be looking in the 80 degree range, probably 35*val x 55*drill or so, with higher numbers, 30*val, 40* drill. Pins around the 4-5" range. 4" if he has lower tilt, 5" if higher tilt.

He hadn't asked about a pattern or him, he just asked for the earliest transition originally.
kellytehuna wrote: Wouldn't you want a bigger VAL angle as well, to smooth out the break point? Just asking. I don't ACTUALLY know, I'm just interested. I would think 20 x 3 3/8 x 10 would start hooking at his feet and roll out before getting out of oil.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by MathIsTruth »

kellytehuna wrote: Wouldn't you want a bigger VAL angle as well, to smooth out the break point? Just asking. I don't ACTUALLY know, I'm just interested. I would think 20 x 3 3/8 x 10 would start hooking at his feet and roll out before getting out of oil.
A larger VAL angle will increase the length of the hook zone which essentially lengthens the second transition from hook to roll, so it will smooth out the breakpoint.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by MathIsTruth »

MattCosta7 wrote:Based on his specs, he'ld definitely want a longer VAL angle, and probably a higher drill angle too. I would say he has decently matched speed and revs, but without tilt, and rotation it's hard to be exacting. with lower tilt/rotation, he would be looking in the 80 degree range, probably 35*val x 55*drill or so, with higher numbers, 30*val, 40* drill. Pins around the 4-5" range. 4" if he has lower tilt, 5" if higher tilt.

He hadn't asked about a pattern or him, he just asked for the earliest transition originally.
He originally stated that his ball speed is high so I think he should keep the drilling angle smaller to get the ball to read sooner. I think he needs to tell us his axis tilt and axis rotation measurements.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by barnes1 »

medium tracker will have to get the other info next time im at the pro shop
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by Mo Pinel »

barnes1 wrote:medium tracker will have to get the other info next time im at the pro shop
We always need 4 pieces of info about the bowler to give accurate advice. They are: ball speed (heads or scorer), rev rate at release, initial axis rotation, and initial axis tilt. Give me that info and I will recommend a layout for the mania. I would love for you to use a mania at Nationals.
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barnes1
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by barnes1 »

i got my info not the rev rate though but here it is

Tilt 4*
Rotation 18*
PAP 4 1/2 over and 1 inch up
Speed 19.7 Qubica

since its for nationals my ball speed is gonna be the toughest factor on all that oil thats why i want this ball to set up early as possible.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by Mo Pinel »

barnes1 wrote:i got my info not the rev rate though but here it is

Tilt 4*
Rotation 18*
PAP 4 1/2 over and 1 inch up
Speed 19.7 Qubica

since its for nationals my ball speed is gonna be the toughest factor on all that oil thats why i want this ball to set up early as possible.
I've been told that the lanes hook more at Nationals this year, even though they're using 26.1 ml of oil per lane.

Those tilt and rotation measurements are awfully precise, but I have to assume they are accurate.

mania drilling for you for Nationals: 55 / 3 1/4 / 20 with a big P3.5 hole sanded 500.
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by MegaMav »

Mo Pinel wrote:I've been told that the lanes hook more at Nationals this year, even though they're using 26.1 ml of oil per lane.

mania drilling for you for Nationals: 55 / 3 1/4 / 20 with a big P3.5 hole sanded 500.[/color]
Whoa whoa whoa... :o
The lanes are hooking more, which probably means more friction.

I must ask, why 500 grit?
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by Mo Pinel »

MegaMav wrote: Whoa whoa whoa... :o
The lanes are hooking more, which probably means more friction.

I must ask, why 500 grit?

They are not hooking that much with 26.1 ml of oil. His ball speed is about 22.5 mph off his hand. Comprendo?
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by MegaMav »

Yes sir!
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by barnes1 »

my ball driller in the house i bowl at after league got me my stats had me throw a ball after league then did his mearements he gave me a rough give or take so i took the middle number but the PAP was accurate right on the money

Tilt 3-5*
Rotation 15-20*


thanks for the info i will definitely be taking this ball along with my
Mutant Cell 500 grit
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Hot Sauce Pearl drilled for drier conditions my down and in ball
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I feel like a have a real complete arsenal and the Mania should complete it perfect
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by barnes1 »

Mo what pin length should i go with and rough estimate on how big of a P3.5 hole
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Re: Mania for nationals layout help

Post by Mo Pinel »

barnes1 wrote:Mo what pin length should i go with and rough estimate on how big of a P3.5 hole
4"+ pin will work the best. 3"-4" pin will work if you drill the fingers 3 1/2" deep. As far as the hole size goes, drill the balance hole 3" deep and make it as big as possible while keeping the statics legal.
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