Double Thumb

Which layout is right for me?

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ChicoMelo
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Double Thumb

Post by ChicoMelo »

My Specs:

Left Handed
Rev Rate = 350
Axis Tilt = 7*
Axis Rotation = 30*
Speed Dominant
PAP = 5 3/4 over and 1/2 up

I took Mo's advice and I drilled up the Jigsaw corner with the double thumb drilling for a long oil sport shot. Mo, I have to say this was the best look I ever had on a long oil sport shot. The ball read the pattern early and kept driving through the pin to the very end. I want to thank you very much, as I have tried many different drillings with little to no success. My ball distributor sent me an evil siege and I have a Mania on it's way. I was wonder can I put the double thumb drilling on the evil siege to compliment the Jig Saw Corner, and how could I drill up the Manian to be another option in the bag?
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by ChicoMelo »

Any thoughts?
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Mo Pinel
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by Mo Pinel »

ChicoMelo wrote:Any thoughts?
Thoughts are not a problem! Time is! Read my post on "Mo's Posting". Remind me of the layout I suggested for the Jigsaw Corner and I can answer this evening. Hope you understand.
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ChicoMelo
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by ChicoMelo »

My assessment of your style is speed dominant, low tilt, low rotation looking for a suggested layout for longer patterns with blends less that 3:1. Your lack of rotation and tilt tells me that you need shorter transition and high diffs. for the drilled balls. This is exactly where "Double Thumb" layouts shine. We will control the strength of the break point with the size of the balance hole, increasing the size of the hole as we go to make the ball read the pattern harder. You find the info for the "Double Thumb" layout technique at http://www.morichbowling.com, so you can measure your exact drilling angle for this technique using your 5 3/4 and 1/2 up axis point. My guess is that if we get this right, you should be able to vary the surface and get this ball to work on both synthetics and wood lanes. A 2.5-3 oz. top weight ball with the pin out 4+" will work best for this. I suggest a strong cover asymmetrical ball for you. Increasing the pin to PAP distance from 4" to 4 1/2" will decrease the sharpness of the breakpoint, if your afraid this layout will be too violent.
I was looking for some drillings for long oil sport patterns. You gave me the above advice and it worked perfectly. I now have the Mania, and Evil Siege. I was thinking I could layout the Evil Siege with the double thumb layout and that would compliment the JigSaw corner in which I used the double thumb layout. I was also wonder how I may fit the Mania in to my arsenal for the long oil sport patterns.

I know you are busy, I will be patient in waiting for your reply as I do appreciate the time and advice that you give.
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by Mo Pinel »

ChicoMelo wrote: I was looking for some drillings for long oil sport patterns. You gave me the above advice and it worked perfectly. I now have the Mania, and Evil Siege. I was thinking I could layout the Evil Siege with the double thumb layout and that would compliment the JigSaw corner in which I used the double thumb layout. I was also wonder how I may fit the Mania in to my arsenal for the long oil sport patterns.

I know you are busy, I will be patient in waiting for your reply as I do appreciate the time and advice that you give.
Thanks for your understanding.

Here are my suggestions. They are based on the design of the three balls. The mania is the most hooking and continuous ball. The Evil Siege is the most angular ball with a later break point. The Jigsaw Corner rolls forward the soonest.

Based on that info, here is how I would set up the other two balls.

The mania: Drill it the same as the Jigsaw Corner. The difference in the cover of the mania will produce the biggest hooking ball of the three. Adjust the surface of the mania and the Corner to get the reactions that you want. Start with the same surface on both. The design of the two balls should give you a nice difference.

The Evil Siege: Drill it 55 / 3 1/4 / 25 with a P3 hole. Use a surface that will allow you to stand 3-4 boards left on the approach with the Evil Siege compared to the Corner. The Evil Siege should yield the latest, sharpest break point.

These three balls should give you great choices in playing long oil sport patterns, as well as other patterns.
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by Slap »

Interesting, I just ordered an Evil Siege.

Mo:
Am I correct to assume this ball is core dominate? (whereas my Response and Mania are cover dominate)
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by Mo Pinel »

Slap wrote:Interesting, I just ordered an Evil Siege.

Mo:
Am I correct to assume this ball is core dominate? (whereas my Response and Mania are cover dominate)

Diff. Ratio vs. Cover Strength determines whether the ball is core or cover dominant.

Evil Siege: .030 / .056 = .54 = core dominant with medium, strong cover
Response: .028 / .046 = .61 = core dominant with medium cover
Mania: .010 / .042 = .24 = cover dominant with a very strong cover
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by Slap »

Mo Pinel wrote:
Diff. Ratio vs. Cover Strength determines whether the ball is core or cover dominant.

Evil Siege: .030 / .056 = .54 = core dominant with medium, strong cover
Response: .028 / .046 = .61 = core dominant with medium cover
Mania: .010 / .042 = .24 = cover dominant with a very strong cover
Okay I understand that. Following your formula I believe the Mania should be:
Mania: 0.013 / 0.051 = 0.25

This is something I will add to my criteria when purchasing a ball. At approximately what diff ratio should I begin to consider core dominance?

Also, depending on your answer to the diff ratio question above, it seems that it would be difficult for symmetric designed balls to be core dominant. However, that might be another a topic for another thread.

Again Mo thanks for taking the time to post. This is great information! Off to practice, I go!
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by Mo Pinel »

Slap wrote:

Okay I understand that. Following your formula I believe the Mania should be:
Mania: 0.013 / 0.051 = 0.25

This is something I will add to my criteria when purchasing a ball. At approximately what diff ratio should I begin to consider core dominance?

Also, depending on your answer to the diff ratio question above, it seems that it would be difficult for symmetric designed balls to be core dominant. However, that might be another a topic for another thread.

Again Mo thanks for taking the time to post. This is great information! Off to practice, I go!
I appreciate your correction on mania. You are correct! Remeber, no matter how good you are, you will always get some on you. Thanks!

Symmetrical balls cannot be core dominant! You are right, again!

Core dominance vs. cover dominance, also, includes the strength of the coverstock. Here are my estimations: Diff. ratios > .25 are core dominant with weak covers. Diff. ratios > .35 are core dominant with weak to medium covers. Diff. ratios > .45 are core dominant with any covers, including "super" covers.
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ChicoMelo
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Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1/2 up
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Rev Rate: 400
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Axis Rotation: 45
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Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour 60 x 5 x 40
Light Oil Ball: Joy Rid 70 x 2 1/4 x 70
Preferred Company: Hammer / Roto / MoRich

Re: Double Thumb

Post by ChicoMelo »


Diff. Ratio vs. Cover Strength determines whether the ball is core or cover dominant.

Evil Siege: .030 / .056 = .54 = core dominant with medium, strong cover
Response: .028 / .046 = .61 = core dominant with medium cover
Mania: .010 / .042 = .24 = cover dominant with a very strong cover
Should be .013 / .051 = .25! My bad!

Okay I understand that. Following your formula I believe the Mania should be:
Mania: 0.013 / 0.051 = 0.25

This is something I will add to my criteria when purchasing a ball. At approximately what diff ratio should I begin to consider core dominance?

Also, depending on your answer to the diff ratio question above, it seems that it would be difficult for symmetric designed balls to be core dominant. However, that might be another a topic for another thread.


I appreciate your correction on mania. You are correct! Remeber, no matter how good you are, you will always get some on you. Thanks!

Symmetrical balls cannot be core dominant! You are right, again!

Core dominance vs. cover dominance, also, includes the strength of the coverstock. Here are my estimations: Diff. ratios > .25 are core dominant with weak covers. Diff. ratios > .35 are core dominant with weak to medium covers. Diff. ratios > .45 are core dominant with any covers, including "super" covers.
Based of this info does this make the Mania core dominant with a weak cover?

The mania density core will dominate weak to medium covers, but will match to the "super" cover used on the mania.
Last edited by MathIsTruth on March 1st, 2010, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: proper quotes..
ChicoMelo
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Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1/2 up
Speed: 18
Rev Rate: 400
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Paradox 120 x 2 1/4 x 60
Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour 60 x 5 x 40
Light Oil Ball: Joy Rid 70 x 2 1/4 x 70
Preferred Company: Hammer / Roto / MoRich

Re: Double Thumb

Post by ChicoMelo »

Mo Pinel wrote: Thanks for your understanding.

Here are my suggestions. They are based on the design of the three balls. The mania is the most hooking and continuous ball. The Evil Siege is the most angular ball with a later break point. The Jigsaw Corner rolls forward the soonest.

Based on that info, here is how I would set up the other two balls.

The mania: Drill it the same as the Jigsaw Corner. The difference in the cover of the mania will produce the biggest hooking ball of the three. Adjust the surface of the mania and the Corner to get the reactions that you want. Start with the same surface on both. The design of the two balls should give you a nice difference.

The Evil Siege: Drill it 55 / 3 1/4 / 25 with a P3 hole. Use a surface that will allow you to stand 3-4 boards left on the approach with the Evil Siege compared to the Corner. The Evil Siege should yield the latest, sharpest break point.

These three balls should give you great choices in playing long oil sport patterns, as well as other patterns.
I have drilled the Evil Siege as you suggested and I am getting hook - stop out of the Evil Siege. I have tried adjusting the cover and using polish. Still nothing but hook-stop. Any suggestions?
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by kellytehuna »

ChicoMelo wrote: I have drilled the Evil Siege as you suggested and I am getting hook - stop out of the Evil Siege. I have tried adjusting the cover and using polish. Still nothing but hook-stop. Any suggestions?
I believe hook stop is a favourable reaction on the longer/heavier shots, is it not? Since the ball will be staying in oil a lot longer, I would think you want to ball to clear the oil, hook and roll out quick since you will have less backend to play with. Or is this reasoning COMPLETELY backwards?

The ball has been drilled to roll early and have a fairly short second transition, so your reaction doesn't surprise me at all.
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Re: Double Thumb

Post by Adrenaline »

ChicoMelo wrote:I have drilled the Evil Siege as you suggested and I am getting hook - stop out of the Evil Siege. I have tried adjusting the cover and using polish. Still nothing but hook-stop. Any suggestions?
If that isn't what you're looking for, and surface adjustments haven't helped, you could plug the P3 hole, throw it and check the reaction. If you still need to weaken it up, drill a P1 hole. That's what I assume would be easiest to prevent re-drilling if surface isn't working. But I'd wait to hear from Mo before doing this.
ChicoMelo
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Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1/2 up
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Rev Rate: 400
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Light Oil Ball: Joy Rid 70 x 2 1/4 x 70
Preferred Company: Hammer / Roto / MoRich

Re: Double Thumb

Post by ChicoMelo »

I do want the ball for long oil sport patterns. Now I did try a long oil house pattern that has heavy volume inside. I am going to bowl on the Shark Pattern tonight. I will see how the ball reacts on that pattern and I will then post the results.
ChicoMelo
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Posts: 104
Joined: February 2nd, 2010, 7:36 pm
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Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1/2 up
Speed: 18
Rev Rate: 400
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Paradox 120 x 2 1/4 x 60
Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour 60 x 5 x 40
Light Oil Ball: Joy Rid 70 x 2 1/4 x 70
Preferred Company: Hammer / Roto / MoRich

Re: Double Thumb

Post by ChicoMelo »

Okay, I bowled on the shark pattern tonight and the Evil Siege came alive. This is what this ball was meant for. As soon as it hit the dry it responded. In Review this is what I was looking for to compliment the double thumb drilling on the jigsaw corner for long oil sport patterns.
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