Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Hi Everyone!
I've enjoyed this forum for a while as an observer and finally signed up to post.
I came across a single drill 1991 Fab Purple Urethane Hammer. I wanted to re-drill this for fun as an alternate look to my more modern urethane ball. I had a question on how important is the pin location on these older balls/cores compared to modern bowling balls? The pin doesn't even stand out on the ball as it blends in with the cover stock. I ask the question because if I re-drill in the existing drill drill footprint, the ball would be a pin under layout with a pin to PAP of 3". I appreciate any advice!
I've enjoyed this forum for a while as an observer and finally signed up to post.
I came across a single drill 1991 Fab Purple Urethane Hammer. I wanted to re-drill this for fun as an alternate look to my more modern urethane ball. I had a question on how important is the pin location on these older balls/cores compared to modern bowling balls? The pin doesn't even stand out on the ball as it blends in with the cover stock. I ask the question because if I re-drill in the existing drill drill footprint, the ball would be a pin under layout with a pin to PAP of 3". I appreciate any advice!
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Find the pin and use the PBA Plastic Ball Layout in the wiki without the balance hole.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... all_Layout
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... all_Layout
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Thanks for sharing this wiki! So if I understand this correctly, I should be looking at a 4" pin to PAP, and a 45 degree VAL angle (drill angle not important post balance hole rule)? Appreciate the guidance!
-
- Member
- Posts: 658
- Joined: January 25th, 2017, 3:10 am
- Preferred Company: Radical, Brunswick
- Location: Valrico Florida
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Drill angle doesn’t matter for symmetrical balls, nothing to do with weight holes
Stacy
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
The Pin most likely will be in the circle Fab (Pin in). But IF you got one that has the "Pin out" of that circle consider yourself really lucky.
I had an original Blue hammer with the pin out almost 4 ". I was able to use it back in the day without a balance hole and the PBA plastic ball layout. It actually had some flare.
With todays 3 oz rule you shouldn't have to worry too much about keeping it legal. But IF the ball has 4 to 5 oz of top weight you could end up not legal with a pin in ball. My old Black Hammer (Pin in) had 4.2 oz of Top weight. It's first drilling (label drill) flared just enough to roll over the middle finger hole on the back end. Used the PBA plastic ball layout with a Large balance hole to make legal. It moved the Bow Tie to above the fingers and kept the track off the finger hole.
Best 2 ball set I ever owned.
I had an original Blue hammer with the pin out almost 4 ". I was able to use it back in the day without a balance hole and the PBA plastic ball layout. It actually had some flare.
With todays 3 oz rule you shouldn't have to worry too much about keeping it legal. But IF the ball has 4 to 5 oz of top weight you could end up not legal with a pin in ball. My old Black Hammer (Pin in) had 4.2 oz of Top weight. It's first drilling (label drill) flared just enough to roll over the middle finger hole on the back end. Used the PBA plastic ball layout with a Large balance hole to make legal. It moved the Bow Tie to above the fingers and kept the track off the finger hole.
Best 2 ball set I ever owned.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
The pin on this ball is 1.5" from the center of the Fab circle, kicked out up and right at 45 degrees. So it is pin out of the circle. If there is any concerns with the PBA plastic layout on that, I'd appreciate the feedback. By the looks of it, my fingers are going to end up drilling out part of the target circle once I plug this and lay it out.
This ball has an interesting history as it originally belonged to USBC hall of famer Rich Wonders (brother of the Fab and Visionary bowling owners).
I had given away my blue and red hammer over the years (also purchased from Rich), so I was happy to acquire this ball to kind of make up for that. I'm looking forward to plugging this and drilling it out.
This ball has an interesting history as it originally belonged to USBC hall of famer Rich Wonders (brother of the Fab and Visionary bowling owners).
I had given away my blue and red hammer over the years (also purchased from Rich), so I was happy to acquire this ball to kind of make up for that. I'm looking forward to plugging this and drilling it out.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Use a 90* drilling angle measured to the Fab Circle and there will be no static weight concerns. 90-4-45
The Pin will be very close to your ring finger. ~5/32"
Is your PAP measured from a high flaring ball or a no flare spare ball.
I would use a PAP from a no flare ball to layout the Purple Hammer.
This will help position the pin further from the ring finger.
The PBA plastic ball layout is about maximizing the differential and making the ball track flare more.
If static weight will allow drill the fingers shallow and the thumb deep to help create even more track flare.
With the old Hammers every little bit helps.
The Pin will be very close to your ring finger. ~5/32"
Is your PAP measured from a high flaring ball or a no flare spare ball.
I would use a PAP from a no flare ball to layout the Purple Hammer.
This will help position the pin further from the ring finger.
The PBA plastic ball layout is about maximizing the differential and making the ball track flare more.
If static weight will allow drill the fingers shallow and the thumb deep to help create even more track flare.
With the old Hammers every little bit helps.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
I appreciate the advice on the plastic ball PAP. I will definately check this out. I'll have to spend some time getting the new PAP off the ball. I wouldn't want to use my existing ball track as I don't really throw the spare ball the same as my strike balls.
I use a Sarge Easter grip due to a ring finger injury, so I would like to keep the pin far enough away to not drill through it.
Here's a couple of pics after a small resurface for anyone interested. I circled the pin so it is more visible.
I use a Sarge Easter grip due to a ring finger injury, so I would like to keep the pin far enough away to not drill through it.
Here's a couple of pics after a small resurface for anyone interested. I circled the pin so it is more visible.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
The Sarge Easter grip should give you more distance between the Pin and ring finger.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 1386
- Joined: December 14th, 2014, 3:08 am
- Preferred Company: Radical
- Location: San Juan, PR
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Report back!
Silver Level Coach
Kegel KCMP1 and KCMP2 Completed /Approved Exam
Kegel KCMP3 Completed
Kegel Certified Pro Shop Operator
Free agent
Kegel KCMP1 and KCMP2 Completed /Approved Exam
Kegel KCMP3 Completed
Kegel Certified Pro Shop Operator
Free agent
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
I definitely will! Unfortunately I haven't been able to get myself to the bowling alley to drop this off at the pro shop. It may take me a bit as my PAP on my spare ball was all over the place, so I need to either find it again with a fresh surface on the ball or use my existing PAP. I actually have the ball laid out with my existing PAP and could just take it to the pro shop to plug and drill like that. I may wait a bit for the virus case load in my area to calm down so I can figure this out. I'll report back when I make some progress!
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
I have to disagree on that.
The fact that it is moving from its original location as soon as it leaves the fingers makes it very difficult to find the PAP by moving a piece of tap around, guessing.
Finding an accurate PAP on a ball that flares is actually more difficult, especially without the proper tool (Armadillo)
The old Hammers barely flare. Its more of a smear than separated lines.
We are trying here to Maximize what a weak core can give.
The 1/2" to 3/4" PAP difference can mean having a ball with defined flare lines or one that just smears the track.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
I do have an armadillo. I was trying to get the PAP off of my spare ball, but the flare rings worn in the ball are all over the place from using different releases to pick up spares. Unfortunately I haven't been out to bowl since the pandemic started. At least I've been able to focus on my golf!
I clean and hit the surface on my equipment on a ball spinner after every time I bowl, so its hard to figure a PAP off of the existing equipment. I do seem to have some track flares on my Brunswick True Motion and could get a PAP off of that. Otherwise, I'm going to wait several weeks until I can find a time to visit my bowling center and give it a shot with my spare ball, or can re-confirm the PAP on the True Motion at least as a lower flaring ball, and I also have a short pin layout on a reactive ball I could try as well.
I clean and hit the surface on my equipment on a ball spinner after every time I bowl, so its hard to figure a PAP off of the existing equipment. I do seem to have some track flares on my Brunswick True Motion and could get a PAP off of that. Otherwise, I'm going to wait several weeks until I can find a time to visit my bowling center and give it a shot with my spare ball, or can re-confirm the PAP on the True Motion at least as a lower flaring ball, and I also have a short pin layout on a reactive ball I could try as well.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Rolling it on the lane with your strike ball release and using the oil rings is much better than trying to use wear marks on the ball.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
I definitely concur! I've retouched the surface of my spare ball, so I'll have some ability to pull a better PAP when I get to the center. I have two spare balls, so I can put some surface on one if I need to in order to pick up the PAP better.EricHartwell wrote: ↑August 25th, 2021, 12:00 am Rolling it on the lane with your strike ball release and using the oil rings is much better than trying to use wear marks on the ball.
The oil rings on my more modern urethane ball though look like I threw it down the lane once on a fresh surface, so there's some possibility there to pull a PAP off of it, but my spare ball, forget it until I get myself to the bowling alley.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
I'm in no hurry.
Take your time and do it right.
You will be happy in the long run.
Take your time and do it right.
You will be happy in the long run.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: July 26th, 2021, 4:36 pm
- Sport Average: 190
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8 over by 3/8 up
- Speed: 19 (Specto)
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Trail Blazer Solid, Intimidator Pearl, Hero Solid
- Medium Oil Ball: Obsession Tour, Conspiracy Theory, GB4 Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Raw Hammer Black
- Preferred Company: Free Agent
- Location: Palm Beach, FL
Re: Laying Out Old Urethane Balls
Looks like I'll be holding off on re-drilling this for a while.
My intent on re-drilling this would be for an occasional PBA regional event in the event of short oil. The PBA is not allowing ball plug starting in 2023 per my interpretation of the updated rule book. It would be counter intuitive to invest money in plugging and re-drilling the ball when I now need to start replacing other equipment if I want to bowl anything next year and beyond. Most of my existing equipment is plugged and re-drilled after various grip changes and I will need to replace some to have some equipment to bowl with.
My intent on re-drilling this would be for an occasional PBA regional event in the event of short oil. The PBA is not allowing ball plug starting in 2023 per my interpretation of the updated rule book. It would be counter intuitive to invest money in plugging and re-drilling the ball when I now need to start replacing other equipment if I want to bowl anything next year and beyond. Most of my existing equipment is plugged and re-drilled after various grip changes and I will need to replace some to have some equipment to bowl with.