Axiom layout for route 66 v2

Which layout is right for me?

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Axiom layout for route 66 v2

Post by EricHartwell »

I am criticizing his drillers. Old and new.
They have been steering him wrong for a couple of years now.
There is one good thing, he got a better fit with this new one.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
TomaHawk
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Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Axiom layout for route 66 v2

Post by TomaHawk »

Layouts are important, no question. But, what if something proves to be effective that, in all reality, the numbers say it should have been ineffective? How do we approach that? Was it a fluke?

If each and every bowling ball were to come out of the factory perfectly identical, luck would not be a factor. Bowling balls are not the same shape, grit, do not have the same weight block location, there are other variables. I believe the game has changed though.

Mo himself, once criticized a manufacture for suggesting a one size fits all layout. I agreed....then. But today, with the advent of the no extra hole rule, it seems bowling balls are close to becoming very "driller friendly". Proof of that is in the simplified layout sheet recently circulated by Mo.

So, yes, the modified layout given to the OP worked. It was somewhat designed that way at the factory.
nwohbowler
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Posts: 71
Joined: March 1st, 2019, 6:05 pm
Positive Axis Point: 6 x 1
Speed: 17 foul line
Rev Rate: 440
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 70

Re: Axiom layout for route 66 v2

Post by nwohbowler »

EricHartwell wrote: March 7th, 2021, 11:37 pm You have solicited for input and layout advice and have yet to heed any of it. What am I supposed to think?

I utilized strong comments to try to make my point. I apologize.
You have complete trust in the guys you have drilling your equipment when they do not deserve it.
I could have criticized even further and let you would know how I really feel. But I choose to keep those comments to myself.
I am not necessarily a friend to the proshop industry because I have been ripped off, lied to and taken advantage of.
Those days are over for me and I use them merely as a tool, essentially paying rent for the use of there machines and tools to get what I want.
Sorry Proshop guys, it is just the way I feel and the reason for my existence here.

So go ahead and search elsewhere and keep the faith in people that are just taking your money. OR...
Accept my apology for making a strong comment to make a point and give some of my suggestions a try by telling your driller what you want vs taking what they give you.

Your most recent request is for a Pearl Asym and wondering if you will "match up" with one.
Pearl balls can be sanded, dull balls can be shined, either/or, it can be made to match up with you and the surface you are bowling on.

If you are still looking for something better for Route 66 go with 30-5-50 adjust to pin in the ring finger and sand it with 2000 grit. Or go with a dull solid Asym.
If you just want something else for the easy house shot that the Axiom is killing, go with the Control layout 60-4-65 and keep it at factory surface.
I'm beginning to think the specs I have are too outdated, and may be why what I have on the current ball doesn't make sense. I trusted the person who set me up with the current layout specifically because he knows my game quite well. We discussed what I was looking for, and then I purchased the ball he suggested on my own and the only money he made was $25 for drilling it. He suggested a low flare layout because I asked for something that would work on the pattern that was coming for the last third of the league, but also would be versatile enough that it would be useful for other patterns. That said, it is concerning that what he said was the layout doesn't match up with what you got based on the picture. I told him my PaP was 6 over and 1 up, which was my fault because I misremembered. My off hand speed is a complete guess at this point, to be completely honest. The on screen speed typically shows between 16 and 17 depending on how many boards I'm covering and 19-20 when I throw straight for spares. I do not have a spare ball, so every shot is with the same ball.

I don't know where to get a good, accurate set of up to date specs. You indicated where I went previously wasn't very helpful because they used a low flare ball for the measurements. I imagine getting my PaP is something I could find on my own, but tilt/rotation and off hand ball speed I've no clue about how to figure. I don't think my rev rate has change significantly though, but it's possible I'm wrong there. I sincerely appreciated the input I've received here, but I admit I did lean more towards information people I bowl with regularly gave me. If I can get a good solid set of data so that you have something you can feel confident is accurate I'll come back for help. But I do not want to make anyone feel that I've wasted their time or played them for a fool.

Just for reference, I'm posting the lanetalk information for the last month or so in both the regular league and challenge league. The challenge league is the 4 game block. Every game was with the Axiom as well, so at the very least it did end up being a versatile layout somehow. February 9th was with the fresh cover and it was very aggressive so I did struggle initially, but once I got some oil into it things got much better.

Image
If only I were a better spare shooter....
Right handed
Rev Rate 420s
Ball speed at release 17
Axis point 6 3/16" and 1" up
Tilt 17 degrees
Rotation 70 degrees
User avatar
EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Axiom layout for route 66 v2

Post by EricHartwell »

You have blind faith in your driller.

Your driller defined the Drilling angle on a Symmetrical drilling by measuring to the Cg.
Sad to say, he does not know the difference between a Symmetrical and an Asymmetrical ball.

Also I am bothered by the fact he recommended a lower flare layout for a Long Oil Condition. It just does not make sense.

Unless you made major changes to your delivery the Specto numbers you have are going to be quite close and still useful.
Check out this link, It explains how to get your own measurements...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
TomaHawk
Pro Shop
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Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Axiom layout for route 66 v2

Post by TomaHawk »

EricHartwell wrote: March 8th, 2021, 10:56 pm Your driller defined the Drilling angle on a Symmetrical drilling by measuring to the Cg.
Sad to say, he does not know the difference between a Symmetrical and an Asymmetrical ball.

Also I am bothered by the fact he recommended a lower flare layout for a Long Oil Condition. It just does not make sense.
If the PSO is confused by the difference between asyms and syms, that would indeed be cause for concern.

The topic is about a layout for the Route 66 oil pattern. I am very curious to know how the conversation went between the driller and the op.

The ball (Axiom) works great on a house shot and moderately well on a sport. Did the driller knowingly put a drill pattern on the ball that could possibly blend the two worlds? Not optimum, but useable?

Something is missing.
GrumpyCatFace
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Joined: May 26th, 2018, 1:46 pm
Preferred Company: Pyramid

Re: Axiom layout for route 66 v2

Post by GrumpyCatFace »

Anyway, I have an Axiom with the same layout. Best bowling ball I’ve owned, by far.
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