Low Tilt Layouts
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Low Tilt Layouts
Any layout suggestions?
Speed...17.5 mph
RPMS....270
Axis rotation....80 degrees
Axis tilt....7 degrees
PAP....5 Over 1 1/16 up
Speed...17.5 mph
RPMS....270
Axis rotation....80 degrees
Axis tilt....7 degrees
PAP....5 Over 1 1/16 up
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
How was the speed measured?
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
I have done a bowlers ID before and my ball speed has always been the same
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Low Tilt Speed dominant, high rotation accentuates this.
Same question is going to get the same answer
Please take the time and re read your own posts
Same question is going to get the same answer
Please take the time and re read your own posts
EricHartwell wrote: ↑October 9th, 2017, 9:51 pm Bowler ID is taken from a non-flaring ball. When laying out a High Flaring ball and layout I suggest finding your PAP on a High flaring ball and use that for High Flare set-ups.
A good idea to add your specs to your signature making for easier reference in the future.
Benchmark totals not necessarily lower. Speed to Revs yes slightly speed dominant, but once you factor in low tilt it raises the totals, then factor in the high rotation and I would consider you Matched. With all that said Benchmark total 95*, Ratio 1.75:1
Asymmetrical Layouts
Totally Strong ............... 50-4-25
Midlane ........................ 40-4-35
Benchmark .................. 60-3.75-35
Long and Strong ........... 80-3.5-35
Control ........................ 60-3.25-55
low flare ...................... 80-2.25-35
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
How about Symetrical layouts
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Was asking because I know no more balance holes...thought it would make a difference...for an 8 ball arsenal how many asymmetrical balls and symmetrical balls should I have...I bowl 3 competitive leagues and about 1 tournament a month
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
I would have 3 Symmetricals in the lineup
Benchmark ............. xx-4.25-30
Control ................. xx-4.5-50 adjust to pin in the ring finger
low flare ...............xx-5.25-30
Benchmark ............. xx-4.25-30
Control ................. xx-4.5-50 adjust to pin in the ring finger
low flare ...............xx-5.25-30
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Any sport layouts..on a previous post your layouts had extra hole...how about now
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
No extra holes allowed after August 2020. So I am not recommending any layouts with balance holes.
The basic set of layouts Asymmetrical and Symmetrical is 9 balls.
Sport type layouts with Strong Pin to PAP lengths adds 3 more. Thats 12 and don't forget the plastic spare ball for 13. Might as well add a couple of Urethane pieces for 15 total.
Asymmetrical Sport layouts
Short Sport ....... 30-4.5-55 Adjust to Pin the the Ring finger
Med Sport ......... 30-5-45
Long Sport ........ 35-5.25-35
The basic set of layouts Asymmetrical and Symmetrical is 9 balls.
Sport type layouts with Strong Pin to PAP lengths adds 3 more. Thats 12 and don't forget the plastic spare ball for 13. Might as well add a couple of Urethane pieces for 15 total.
Asymmetrical Sport layouts
Short Sport ....... 30-4.5-55 Adjust to Pin the the Ring finger
Med Sport ......... 30-5-45
Long Sport ........ 35-5.25-35
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Thank you Eric for your layouts....which one of the Symetrical layouts would be more midlane and which one would be more long and strong
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
The one you put more surface on will be give you the most midlane read. There are no Midlane or Long and Strong layouts for Symmetrical balls.
The Symmetrical Benchmark will give you the strongest backend reaction in the Symmetrical line up.
The Symmetrical Benchmark will give you the strongest backend reaction in the Symmetrical line up.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Thank you Eric...I have a Supersoniq and a ProMotkon wondering which one would be better for a control layout and which one would be better for the low flare layout as I have 3 balls with that benchmark layout with different surfaces
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
-
- Member
- Posts: 658
- Joined: January 25th, 2017, 3:10 am
- Preferred Company: Radical, Brunswick
- Location: Valrico Florida
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Put the low flare on the pro motion, that ball needs oil for the strong cover
Stacy
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Just wondering...I wanted a layout for shorter patterns less than 37ft ...I have a Halo with a low flare layout...works fine just wanted symmetric options ...I have 2 plugged balls . IQ Tour Solid and a Phaze 2...I just drilled a new one with my benchmark drilling xx/4/30...thinking Phaze 2 control xx/4 1/2/55 pin in the ring but not sure about low flare on IQ Tour...also thinking about adding a Pitch Black....Any Ideas
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
I like the Pin in the Ring finger Control Layout for the IQ Tour.
Pitch Black ..........xx-4-30 and drill the thumb to the 4 1/2" depth limit.
Pitch Black ..........xx-4-30 and drill the thumb to the 4 1/2" depth limit.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
How about the Phaze 2
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
What does the 4 1/2 inch depth do ?
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
It will raise the differential and get a little bit of flare. .022 differential doesn't flare very much.
Phase 2 ............. 80-5 1/4-35
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
Ok Thanks Eric....get back when I drill them
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
-
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 222
- Sport Average: 204
- Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
- Speed: 17 mph at the line
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv
Re: Low Tilt Layouts
BTW...which drilling has more overall hook Control or Low Flare.....which one is earlier
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up