Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
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-
- Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
- Speed: 18.5 per specto
- Rev Rate: 27
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 65
Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
I was inquiring what is more critical in the layout of a low tilt(7*) bowler’s ball with 40-60 degree axis rotation. Does the pin to pap distance or the angle ratio have more effect on the performance of the drilled ball.
I am trying to see which balls in my arsenal will theoretically perform better so I can cull some of the outliers that I have.
I have read some of the wiki pages and assorted post but cannot definitively sort it out. I was hoping for some insight.
LH stroker
5 3/8 x 1 3/8 up
250-275 rpm
7* at. 40-60 ar
17 mph off hand
I am trying to see which balls in my arsenal will theoretically perform better so I can cull some of the outliers that I have.
I have read some of the wiki pages and assorted post but cannot definitively sort it out. I was hoping for some insight.
LH stroker
5 3/8 x 1 3/8 up
250-275 rpm
7* at. 40-60 ar
17 mph off hand
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
Benchmark 1.5:1 Ratio 90* totalsradialfil wrote:I was inquiring what is more critical in the layout of a low tilt(7*) bowler’s ball with 40-60 degree axis rotation. Does the pin to pap distance or the angle ratio have more effect on the performance of the drilled ball.
I am trying to see which balls in my arsenal will theoretically perform better so I can cull some of the outliers that I have.
I have read some of the wiki pages and assorted post but cannot definitively sort it out. I was hoping for some insight.
LH stroker
5 3/8 x 1 3/8 up
250-275 rpm
7* at. 40-60 ar
17 mph off hand
Asymmetrical Layouts
Totally Strong .......................... 45-4.5-25
Midlane .................................. 35-4-35
Benchmark ............................. 55-3.5-35
Long and Strong ...................... 75-3.25-35
Control ................................... 55-3-55
low flare ................................. 75-2-35
Symmetrical layouts (Drilling Angle represents the Angle to the Thumb hole)
Benchmark ............................. 80-4-30
Control .................................. 95-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
- Speed: 18.5 per specto
- Rev Rate: 27
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 65
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
Wow!
Thanks
I presume the 14# weight is a non factor.
Thanks
I presume the 14# weight is a non factor.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
My arsenal lists are a guideline that defines a good usable range.
Specific ball needs to be considered when choosing a layout. For the most part, 14# equipment won't need much if any adjustments.
I forgot to comment
There are actually 3 parts to consider for layouts. Pin to PAP, Ratio and Totals.
The release defined with Tilt, Rotation, Speed and Revs are used to determine the layout.
Specific ball needs to be considered when choosing a layout. For the most part, 14# equipment won't need much if any adjustments.
I forgot to comment
Pin to PAP and Ratio are used together to tune a layout to a specific release. I don't consider one without the other.radialfil wrote: Does the pin to pap distance or the angle ratio have more effect on the performance of the drilled ball.
There are actually 3 parts to consider for layouts. Pin to PAP, Ratio and Totals.
The release defined with Tilt, Rotation, Speed and Revs are used to determine the layout.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
- Speed: 18.5 per specto
- Rev Rate: 27
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 65
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
It looks like most of my ball selection does not fit exactly like you describe, mostly the p2p distances. I have been pretty much shootin in the dark trying to hit the right combination. I think the balls that are close in ratio and sum with some p2p variation will help to begin to deal with this rubics cube of bowling balls. Mostly the balls I have are sym @ 4”or less or at 5”and asym @ 4-4.5”p2p. I have a plethora of balls to work with now I and will be using your data going forward with modification of some old the balls or even new ball layouts. I hope to be able to visually see the reaction variance from what I have in reference to the categories that you have set out.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
-
- Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
- Speed: 18.5 per specto
- Rev Rate: 27
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 65
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
I was wondering if any change in recommendation to layouts as I have updated my release specs.
LH: 7* tilt @ +\-60ar; 275-300rpm; 18.5mph off hand measured by specto; 5.25x1.5^ pap
Thx
LH: 7* tilt @ +\-60ar; 275-300rpm; 18.5mph off hand measured by specto; 5.25x1.5^ pap
Thx
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
No changes are necessary.
Both your speed and revs went up keeping you in the same Sweetspot.
Both your speed and revs went up keeping you in the same Sweetspot.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
- Speed: 18.5 per specto
- Rev Rate: 27
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 65
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
Thank you
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
-
- Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
- Speed: 18.5 per specto
- Rev Rate: 27
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 65
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
Is there a symmetrical equivalent to the list categories of layouts you have given me?
Additionally, does the list of layout range from earliest to later reaction? I.e., Earliest=totally strong; low flare=latest reax.
Is there a particular type of ball, solid, hybrid, pearl that work best for each category list.
Additionally, does the list of layout range from earliest to later reaction? I.e., Earliest=totally strong; low flare=latest reax.
Is there a particular type of ball, solid, hybrid, pearl that work best for each category list.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
I can add the low flare Symmetrical ...80-5-30EricHartwell wrote: ↑November 13th, 2019, 12:35 am Benchmark 1.5:1 Ratio 90* totals
Asymmetrical Layouts
Totally Strong .......................... 45-4.5-25
Midlane .................................. 35-4-35
Benchmark ............................. 55-3.5-35
Long and Strong ...................... 75-3.25-35
Control ................................... 55-3-55
low flare ................................. 75-2-35
Symmetrical layouts (Drilling Angle represents the Angle to the Thumb hole)
Benchmark ............................. 80-4-30
Control .................................. 95-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger
Yes the layout list is Strongest to weakest.
As far as recommending Specific ball type remember surface adjustments are key to matching up.
Pearls can be played dull and soilds can be shined.
You need to do some research when purchasing and try to match up to the marketing and reviews.
Don't get a skid snap type ball for a control layout or a low differential low flare ball and put a low flare layout on it.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 25
- Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
- THS Average: 212
- Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
- Speed: 18.5 per specto
- Rev Rate: 27
- Axis Tilt: 7
- Axis Rotation: 65
Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.
A lot of companies are coming out with lower differential asym balls. Where in the progression list would these generally fit, benchmark below or only a few categories. Lets says obsession tour type numbers.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*